Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

Yes the hand flapping, rubbing his neck etc… is stimming.
But that’s very much fully part if autism and something he shouldn’t suppress, esp at home, because that’s his way to help emotionally regulate.

My own dh stimming often feels to me quite angry.
One of his stims is mumbling under his breath. I find it triggering due to stuff from childhood. and yes it feels very angry.
However, every single time ive asked him if he was ok, he was. its clearly a ME issue rather than something to do with him iyswim.

I dont think it has damaged my dcs (theyre both adults now).

One thing i know though is that the unpredictability coming with having a toddler at home has been something dh found very had to deal with.
Even now they are young adults, he says hed find it hard if one of them was moving back home.

It’s not ok though to pace around stimming whilst making everyone else around you uncomfortable and walking on eggshells. My ex would walk up and down steaming and I knew any little badly taken comment and he’d explode. If you are in this mood that’s what gyms and running etc are for. Bringing this energy into your home is not acceptable. My kids stim, they have poppers and tap and spin but none of what they do sets and angry tone in the house. It not ok to enable angry man energy in the home, asd or not. There are proper outlets for this.

Thanks for the replies, I've been mulling over them all day. It's so hard - I know it's hard to control but 'angry man energy' is exactly how to describe it @Marshmallowkiss. But then we have days like today, no stimming just a day at home being a family - he took DS to the library while I took DD to her swim lesson, then this afternoon just pottering - he helped DD with her homework and piano, played with them both, that sort of thing. When it's like today it's fine - not great as he's still useless around the house, but ok. But the nursery incident is causing me to question.

@SpecialMangeTout3 funnily enough our toddler isn't an issue. His trigger seems to me more when he feels he's being taken advantage of or someone is deliberately out to embarrass him, or is someone just isn't behaving as he thinks they should. DS is a typical toddler but DH can understand it's just him being a toddler iyswim so doesn't get angry. DD not concentrating while on the scooter and bumping into someone for example would upset him - although he'd generally stim rather than explode.

He has mentioned getting a drs appt but I'm not sure if he has. I'm also sceptical of what support they'll actually provide? He can hold down a good job, has a family etc. So what can they do?

He has a family because you “put up with” his behaviour. He may have a job because he controls himself there. They are not indicators of his “okayness”. If that makes sense.

Yes that's true @Marshmallowkissand he works from home 90% of the time so it's easy to avoid there.

I think I need to sit with it and see how I feel. But it would be useful to know if getting a diagnosis/going to the gp would mean getting some help (therapy/medication?) or if it would just be 'off you go'. What strategies have helped you/your DH's?

Getting any diagnosis is the first step to knowing who you are. But it has to come from the person. They have to be able to see that they aren’t handling things well and their behaviour is negatively effecting those around them. Some on here have got a diagnosis and just used it as an excuse. It really depends on the person and what they want out of it. Does he know that the way he behaves sometimes affects you all? Does he know he needs some help and support with some behaviours? If he does then the gp would be a good start, maybe the right to choose option. He has to want to do it for the right reasons. The thing is so many of us have enabled behaviour for so long that whole situation gets very muddled.

@startingtobreak, welcome! With regard to solutions, knowing what he’s dealing with so to speak can help. Knowing there is a reason, that he’s not broken, just differently wired. There are no medications for ASD, therapy might help at least if he has stuff he needs to resolve, childhood experiences that impact his current behaviour. Like the telling off stuff / feeling embarrassed or disrespected that may be rooted in personal experience. It might help him see his behaviour from an objective viewpoint but you need to find a good therapist who isn’t going to treat him with kid gloves just because he’s got a diagnosis or thinks he might be ASD. If it’s ADHD then the meds can help with emotional regulation. My DH has done therapy on and off and it has helped him handle things better.

It could be rejection sensitivity which links to ADHD but there any many other reasons a person could experience such nervous system reaction to criticism. He needs to learn to support and self soothe his nervous system so he can learn to cope with criticism. You can’t live a life tip toeing around it. The trouble is it’s very hard for someone to admit that they have issues, it could stem from childhood and that’s a hard mirror to look into. I think many undiagnosed adults have a lot of trauma and childhood/school/parental/friendship trauma. We grow up doing and getting so many things wrong it would be easy to form this hypersensitivity. But you love him and so do others and he could possibly jeopardise this. He needs to do some radical work and acceptance so he can let his guard down.

We're having major RSD here... so DC has started uni, other side of London. Tomorrow is Yom Kippur, Jewish fast day where we break fast as a family usually. DC said they would prefer to spend the day settling in with a Jewish group at that end of London and I thought that was fair enough, DH very insistent they come here to break the fast.

They sent a very well worded message saying they planned to break fast with the group, offering to definitely keep some other dates free... I thought OK, 30% chance he might respect this, 70% chance he'll explode, but I was right on the money. He claims DC told him they were coming to us, in which case they should abide by it and it's a bit pass-agg to get away and then change their mind. I can't deal with the bloody fall out and folded and said while I hate to do it and it's against my principles please could they come for the meal to keep the peace because we have 4 hours now until we go radio silent. I've told them to message DH directly (as tbf I should not be the go between) and I think they'll try to convince him their offer is fair, which I think it is. But I do understand DH being pissed off if they had said they'd come, I don't think they get to change their mind on this. I suspect DC will say they never said that, I honestly don't know.

Ugh, I do not need this today, from either of them.

That’s a shame. It is natural isn’t it for kids to pull away and stand on their own feet. It’s to be expected and in a way really good if your DC has found some friends he feels comfortable with. This is life now for parents as the kids fly away. If he isn’t careful they won’t fly back because they won’t feel safe or they’ll feel scared of his lack of regulation. My friend has unfortunately just had her 17 years son walk out and sleeping on the streets then on sofas because he clashes with his dad. They both ADHD and the dad gets controlling and very angry.

Yes, that's what worries me sometimes, but try telling that to DH.

I've basically had to emotionally blackmail them to come and I feel shitty about it, but while DH's reaction wasn't right TBH, this was the wrong day for DC to pick that battle because it's a very sensitive one and we're all about to fast for 25 hours!

I think we need to have a conversation when things are calmer and we've all eaten - we are not asking them to live in our pockets but even I feel a little taken for granted sometimes that everything else seems to come before the family. The difference is I understand that at their age they're working things out and they'll sometimes get it wrong and be kind of self-absorbed, whereas DH takes it very personally and feels extremely hurt.

I think having a young person who is 'too social/active' is a nice problem to have in this day and age when so many are worried their older kids don't have social lives and live in their bedroom, but the flipside is finding a balance.

It is the right of passage for every young adult to be selfish. They will leave, they will often go far but one day they will come back. It’s this older wiser version you need to be worried about. I personally went far, moved 100’s of miles away for 14 years but I came back home with my own kids. It’s got to be a memory of home that brings them back, not fear or obligation. I would not be agreeing with the H because he can’t see it this way.

Some have got a diagnosis, help and it has changed things.

Essentially because they saw things weren't working and wanted them to work. So they were willing to learn, put the effort in and try.

It has, at times, been a question for some people if they can adapt well enough to the needs of a close relationship. But before the question of 'can they', comes the question of 'do they want to'. Sometimes the answer to that has been no, but sometimes it's been yes.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I the weekend was fine, no stimming, did stuff with the kids. But I have this undercurrant now of concern, and he didn't pause the tv when I got up to sort dinner... such a simple thing but just showed me how little he thinks. I had a knot in my stomach going to bed last night, like I wasn't sure I wanted to be near him.

I think I need to spend some proper time working through what I actually want - regardless of what he does. I've referred myself to NHS talking therapies and have an initial appointment on Friday. Not sure if they can help with relationship stuff, but it's a start. Otherwise I'm going to see what's available through my employer.

@EchobellyI hope your weekend turned out ok. I agree with others that your son will naturally need to spread his wings and want to settle with his friends. It was something my FIL has really struggled with, and I know in turn his much after that puts my DH under. It's hard.

@Marshmallowkiss That's kind of what I feel. They are very mature in some ways, and not in others and rather than reading in this massively personal interpretation, it's better to acknowledge 'I'm hurt and upset by this' and find a way to express that productively.

I see a lot of people who seem to think they are protecting themselves by assuming the worst of everyone, it's like 'This way I will ensure I am never taken advantage of/hurt/made a fool of' and they just end up hurting themselves and people around them. TBH, reading the best into people and actions has worked pretty well for me - I don't feel I've been walked over or taken advantage of and I have never fallen out with people.

In the end this evening was good - I was nervous as I went to the final service for Yom Kippur and DH was at home preparing the dinner for after but when I got back everything was very good humoured and lovely, so I'm glad it worked out. I was worried I'd done the wrong thing convincing DC to come as DH said he still felt very angry, but I think it was healing and sorted things out.

It’s very hard. When I was a young adult I moved to London where I stayed for 14 years. My mum was incredibly controlling (now I come to understand she is asd) I missed my dad terribly but the controlling nature of my my upset me (now I know I’m ND) so I didn’t want to move home. When I had kids I did move home because of my dad. We had a few years before he sadly died. Me and my mum have a much better relationship now as I understand where she is coming from, her controlling was just love wrapped up in ASD. What I wanted to say was that it’s fine to feel sad like you do, it’s completely normal. What’s not fair is manipulation etc because someone can’t regulate it. God I expect my mum was so sad about me going but it wasn’t fair of her to control and manipulate me because she was unable to control herself. He is going to feel so much because his son will choose his friends over you, get a gf (the gf could be totally wrong). You are going to want to intervene but you can’t. It’s all the path to being an adult.

I don't think DH is especially controlling, I hope DC won't see it that way - we both accepted their gender identity, getting a tattoo on their 18th birthday, we never really set a curfew because TBH they generally liked getting to bed early and they were always shy of going to over 18 venues before they turned that age and so on and now they are 18 I think they're old enough not to have one.

I'm fine and very happy they are independent - especially in an age when so many parents are worried about their kids 'launching' into life and not having a social life. It's a good 'problem' to have, but I just don't want to feel we always have to 'book' them months in advance because there is always something happening and I feel they do need to recognise that, a few times a year, family stuff should take precedence. I'd rather they see that on their own, but it may be they need some explaining that it can seem hurtful if they say they'll do a family thing and then some non-essential thing comes up and they go 'Actually I'm doing this', like happened when DH and I had a combined birthday party last year.

I know a room full of strangers is not their idea of fun, but I'd have liked them to swing by, even for just half an hour, and they made a decision on the day to do something else instead. I wasn't devastated or angry, I just hoped they might choose to share in our lives in that way, IYSWIM.

Kids! People will do what they want and what they want to prioritise at the time, doesn’t mean it won’t change and doesn’t mean they don’t care. At the moment they prioritising their life outside the family. I’m sure we’ve all done the same thing. But also you can’t make a person be family oriented. I know my partners brother barely acknowledges his family, my H is the opposite.

I'm just wondering how best to address this with DH; on one level I just want to say 'Oh get over yourself!' but I need to find a way of recognising his feelings respectfully.

My gut instinct is to say 'Look, let's just see how the rest of this term until the end of the calendar year goes rather than demanding this or that level of contact, and see how it pans out'. I want to say to him ultimately 'It's the old, if you love someone, set them free thing'

Maybe DC will do their thing and not see much of us for a bit, maybe for a few years but DH will say 'Oh if we let them do that, we'll never see them again'

Is he respecting your feelings, is he comforting you because no doubt it’s really difficult as a mum to see your child choose friends, even though every parent goes through it. Your H’s feelings are not the most important just because he feels them stronger or he can’t see other’s feelings. I would not let him take over this situation or turn my focus onto him. I don’t think it’s healthy to always be the person who has to decipher and explain his feelings to him, he shouldn’t get to take your humanity away from you. He should be seeking support for his feelings and coming back to you balanced better and supporting one another.

@@Echobelly I think I would make it clear to DH that you aren’t happy with the contact either but that you recognise that your DS is growing up and finding his feet in a new world. You cannot dictate what he does. You can ask but not demand. Perhaps he drifts for a bit maybe he doesn’t, but forcing contact right now will not make it better in the long run.

That’s the thing really your DH @Echobelly is not wrong. His feelings are totally valid. It’s what he does with HIS feelings that is the problem. He can’t act on the way he wants because to control a person is wrong, to manipulate or guilt is wrong. He also needs to recognise you have strong feelings also. You are equally human. I do find with my own daughter her feelings always take precedence but she is being taught to sit with them and not act until time has passed a little. It’s recognising which part of the brain is driving the car and waiting for the logic part to Switch on.

Maybe what I need to say is it would be worse of us to lay conditions than it is for DC to possibly neglect us a bit - we are the adults and they are still a child at the end of the day.

I think children moving out to go to Uni is a big step for the parents too. It forces us to change who we are and move from being a parent to being an adult towards our children.
It’s hard ime to stop yourself from expecting them to do as we ask them to, to expect them to spend all family time with us or to stop telling them off/telling them what to do 😂

On the other side, our child is living a life wo us for the first time. They’re creating links with people we’re not part of.
That first month at Uni is all encompassing. New environment, new people, freshers week. Theres no space for ‘family’ in there. Even less so because most people are away from home and can’t go back home easily.

I would wait before putting any ‘rules’ down unless really big. See how your dc settles. Remember as others have said theyre going to come across as selfish but it doesn’t mean they don’t love you anymore or don’t want to have anything to do with you.