Trapped in a house of constant shouting

[roleypoley]

We have 2 DS, one who is 3, one is 3 months. 3 year old is boisterous and strong willed, doesn't like doing as he's asked. He's hard work tbh and does seem naughty compared to other children but he has only just turned 3 and does have a new brother. I still believe he's doing ok and doesn't have 'something wrong with him' ....DP does. He shouts, DS shouts, DP shouts more. I think he should lead by example and talk nicely then DS might behave better. He says I'm not coping and something needs to be done about our out of control child. I don't know exactly what he thinks should be done, so far it just seems to be yelling at him. I feel I am coping although not having a particularly great time. Weekends are much worse than weekdays because we all clash. It doesn't feel like a nice environment at the moment and all I want is for DP to talk nicely and respectfully to all of us and then do our best with DS. Call me old fashioned but I believe in being polite and respectful and he is neither of these things, especially to me and often in front of DS. Surely this will have a negative impact on his behaviour? I'm scared he's just going to grow up angry

Oh dear sounds chaotic shouty parents just winds up kids is your partner always so angry or is this a new thing he might be frustrated with your son doesnt excuse yelling though your house sounds very chaotic atm being firm with your 3yrold is fine but yelling at him is just not going to work

I believe in being polite and respectful and he is neither of these things, especially to me and often in front of DS.

Your partner routinely speaks to you disrespectfully?

Yes that will certainly be affecting your DS's behaviour. But that is a symptom, not the main problem. It sounds like the main problem is that you are in a relationship with a shouty and disrespectful man.

What is your relationship with your DP like? How does he behave towards you? Is he controlling, or belittling, as well as shouty?

Shouty people raise shouty children, they lead by example obviously.

Does your partner talk down to you in front of your son? This will only teach him that he can shout at you and treat you the same way.

I have a friend that I knew before she had four kids. She was already loud and shouty and opinionated. I knew it would be interesting to see what the dynamic would be once she started a family and with her four kids growing up, it is! All the kids have learned by example and their household is utter chaos. Well beyond the norm. The kids bellow constantly at each other and at the parents and pretty well anyone really. The neighbours have made formal complaints and even the people in the house over the road have moved away because they can't stand the discord and their dog barking endlessly as a result. The children seem to think the only way to get anything they want is by screaming and yelling, they absolutely never politely ask to be passed anything or if they can change channel on the TV etc. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

My point IMHO kids do learn from their immediate environment (no surprise there) and you are not both on the same page at all. You need to have a calm and measured approach with a united front ie your DH needs to get on board with this.

RiceCrispieTreats he isn't controlling and I probably wouldn't use the word belittling just often quite rude. He doesn't hide anger/annoyance so will say exactly what he thinks to me and DS. It's the reason for so many arguments because I just want him to talk nicely and discuss things calmly. Even day to day I wish he would just be polite but is often snappy and rude (over his job as well as DS). I completely agree that shouty parents raise shouty children but he doesn't see it and thinks the problem is me being too soft.

I agree SickInBed but he won't see that it's a problem and even if he did I don't think he can control his temper. It's so frustrating because DS behaviour is getting worse and I'm the one getting the blame even though I think I set the best example by staying calm! It's just such a viscous cycle, It feels like there's constraint shouting and it wears my down, I eventually cry and DP says this is awful to do in front of the boys yet yelling is ok?!

Roley maybe you have to leave the DH in order to save your DS. There is no other way to limit contact and if DH is not able to see the bleeding obvious then what else can you do? What an awful dilemma! I was raised in a very quiet and respectful house. The worst I saw between my parents was mildly narked on rare occasions. No-one shouted until my older sis was a teen and then it was limited by my DDad having a strong word in her ear, insisting that we lived in a happy and respectable house and she could take it elsewhere if she persisted (working class as you like see?) As an adult I can't stand drama, noise or conflict (which brings it's own problems - especially with work) but I am able to get along with anybody pretty much and am pretty good at problem solving in a quiet and sensible way and consider myself fairly well balanced and normal. What about suggesting to him he attend parenting classes of some sort?

I think it's fairly obvious that root of the problem with your 3 year old's behaviour is your DH.

He may feel stress and traumatised by this shouty man and that can make children go out of control.

Some boys are more boisterous than others but he's not living in a calm quiet environment.

He's not going to change even with parenting classes. This is who he is.

So how is the rest of your relationship with your DP? Is he a twat in other areas or does he save all his ire for the DS? Women have left their partners for less OP. Seeing you reduced to tears and having no compassion for you or the DC is not good!

Sorry just read that he is shouty over his job too.

A lot depends on the rest of your relationship OP but, on the assumption there's enough good about your DP for you to want to stay with him, this is what I would do. Do some reading on positive parenting techniques either online or get some books, much of what you read will probably be what you're already doing but trying to get him to do it your way might be easier if you have something to back you up. Try and sit down together at a quiet time when the DC are in bed and present the ideas to him as a new approach for both of you to solve the problems you're having (even if you know it's what you've been doing all along) and highlight the fact that you need to apply them consistently as a team. If then he continues shouting when a situation arises with your DS you can remind him what you're both supposed to be doing and that it won't work if you're not both doing the same things. There are two possible scenarios here, either he's an abusive shit who can't control his temper (in which case that will become apparent when he can't stick to the parenting techniques and you will have some decisions to make about the future of your relationship) or he genuinely doesn't know any better but will be willing to try something different and learn how to be a better parent. It's worth a try even if all it does is confirm that he isn't the sort of father you want for your DC but there is always the possibility that it might just work. Good luck OP, let us know how you get on

Call me old fashioned but I believe in being polite and respectful and he is neither of these things, especially to me and often in front of DS.

Parenting classes aren't going to stop him being rude and disrespectful to the OP.

The crap parenting is only half the story, the other half is being a crap spouse.

Have you read ''Why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft OP?

I know I need to talk to him & I planned to this evening, but now DS is asleep I just feel exhausted and can't face the fight that it will inevitably lead to. He's acting like everything is fine now & suggested a film but it's been such a crappy day I'm really not in the mood so have come upstairs with the baby.

Fern I often show him things I have read on parenting to back up my argument but he rarely reads them. Then he tells me my way isn't working because I'm not getting 'results' and DS is still badly behaved. I'd be more willing to accept this if he had a reasonable alternative but he doesn't have a clue what to do and is really inconsistent with discipline depending on his mood. I'm honestly not surprised DS behaves the way he does. I'm not perfect I think I should be better towards DP in front of DS as it obviously upsets him when we don't get on but I find it really hard to be around him sometimes and if I think he's being out of order find myself telling him to just go away and leave us alone. I know that agreeing on a strategy and putting on a united front is the best thing we can do but feels like an impossible task at the moment.

Sounds like it runs deeper than just parenting issues then OP if you're not getting on to the extent you don't want to be around him. Do you still want to be with him do you think or are you at the stage where you need to be thinking about an exit strategy?

I agree with pp that his treatment of you is the issue.

But also if he's looking for 'results' he needs to understand that good parenting is a long game. If your ds has learnt shouty disrespectful behaviour it's going to take months/years of consistent respectful input to change that. So it can't be 'well we've been trying this since last Thursday so it's clearly not working'.

I just don't know at the moment, I feel so upset about how things have been lately doesn't feel like I'm thinking straight. He just snaps out of it as soon as DS is in bed and he's had a glass of wine, becomes all cheery. I still feel like crap, like nothing is resolved and keep thinking about everything that's been said. He'd tell me to get a grip and stop playing the victim if he knew I was saying this which makes me doubt myself and wonder if I am being dramatic/unreasonable

Your partner is the problem.
He sounds very immature and self absorbed.
He is also ignorant of any parenting techniques.
Sorry.

Mypockets that's exactly what I say, it will take time and we have to have faith in doing the right thing and leading by example but he wants instant results!

Shouty people raise shouty children

Im living proof of that. After a certain age, it fell on deaf ears and I was like yeah whatever, or ignored the shouting or shouted back.

I just loses it's shock value

My dh used to be like this but I am quite fierce and wouldn't accept the way he was parenting and he got it. He changed a LOT. I think you need to be strong, sit him and down and say you are very unhappy and very concerned about the shouting - it is NOT what you want for your son. If he ridicules you or dismisses you and won't listen then...well I think you have a very serious problem (him) and you should give him an ultimatum.

Throwing I want to be like you! Talked to him & he mostly agreed, said he doesn't want to shout but he's tired and annoyed that DS doesn't listen. We'll see if tomorrow is any better. Thank you for all the advice.

I don't think you're being dramatic or unreasonable OP, living in a shouty environment is not pleasant or healthy for you or your DC. I find the fact that he would accuse you of 'playing the victim' quite worrying, he is disregarding your concerns and cutting off any attempts you make to question his behaviour by doing that and it smacks of control to me. Could you manage (financially and childcare wise) to look into some counselling (just you, not with DP) OP? I just think sometimes when you're in the middle of a situation like this it can be hard to get enough headspace to really see what's going on, it sounds like you could do with talking it through with someone in a calm place where you can think straight. He's not giving you chance to say how you feel about it, or even chance to think about it properly between the shouting and the switching to 'cheery DP' when the kids have gone to bed, I think he does that deliberately so you question whether there really is even a problem and don't dare bring it up. Obviously this is an outsiders view based on what little you've said in your posts but you sound really ground down and more than a bit confused so it might really help if you had somewhere you could work it all out in your own mind.

He sounds ignorant,selfish, immature and quite frankly very hostile toward the children.

I would go to the ends of the earth to get precious offspring out of such a horrible situation. What good can come of them being raised in proximity to someone like that?