Trapped in a house of constant shouting

[roleypoley]

We have 2 DS, one who is 3, one is 3 months. 3 year old is boisterous and strong willed, doesn't like doing as he's asked. He's hard work tbh and does seem naughty compared to other children but he has only just turned 3 and does have a new brother. I still believe he's doing ok and doesn't have 'something wrong with him' ....DP does. He shouts, DS shouts, DP shouts more. I think he should lead by example and talk nicely then DS might behave better. He says I'm not coping and something needs to be done about our out of control child. I don't know exactly what he thinks should be done, so far it just seems to be yelling at him. I feel I am coping although not having a particularly great time. Weekends are much worse than weekdays because we all clash. It doesn't feel like a nice environment at the moment and all I want is for DP to talk nicely and respectfully to all of us and then do our best with DS. Call me old fashioned but I believe in being polite and respectful and he is neither of these things, especially to me and often in front of DS. Surely this will have a negative impact on his behaviour? I'm scared he's just going to grow up angry

Isnt this the main plot of every Supernanny show? Shouty parents bringing up shouty and badly behaved kids?

There's only one shouty parent here. And I don't like him or the way he treats OP.

He is messing with your head OP. And if he's not controlling then I don't know what is.

He controls the weather in your house. He is shouty, disruptive, disrespectful and dismissive during the day. Switches it off and becomes Mr Moderate when DS is asleep. And he shuts you down if you attempt to have a reasonable conversation. Reasonable people do not act like this. He is controlling the situation and he is controlling you. Not only that, he is deliberately undermining your parenting as a way of upsetting you. These are all instruments of control - if he's upsetting DS, then he controls you, if he upsets you, then he controls you, if he calms down and switches off then you are wandering round confused and thinking you might have imagined things. This is exactly the kind of headfuck abusive men like to cultivate in their victims. Don't dismiss this idea, it sounds barely believable I know, but it could be you, it really could.

Tell him that if he shouts that means your DS is winning. DS wants to cause an emotional reaction and shouting is giving him that. (This is from 1-2-3 Magic by the way). Staying calm doesn't give DS the same satisfaction.

This kind of reasoning might work better with your DH than the "lead by example" type of reasoning?

You are not trapped.
You can start finding a way forward.
You cannot change him but you can change how you react.
There is always a way out.
Go away for easter without him and see how dc behave and how you feel . More relaxed ?

Yeh try signing up for parenting classes together see if he takes on board some kindd of positive parenting approach.
But if he dismisses us and us not willing then you know where you stand. And if you separate then that alone could cut by half or more the amount if time your dc get shouted at

My dh can be like this when he is really tired or dcs especially hulyoee etc. I also gave an ultimatum and explained very clearly that I would not accept this style of parenting and it needed to stop. It has since got much better and as a result their relationship is really strong now. Consistency and staying calm is key. We have regular chats about what we could do to improve behaviour further... sticker chart, specific times for things in our daily routine, dinner tune rules etc we always discuss a new idea before putting into practice and once we say something we stick to it. As a starting point we watched some episodes of super nanny together (I found episodes which were similar set up to ours). This was a great starting point and if your dh says he doesn't want to shout he could be open to this as it shows the long game in action. You have to be clear at first then move forwards together setting family rules for all of you with rewards and consequences. I made sure they had quality time together each day doing something dcs already love and generally behaved better at. That way their relationship improved too. Now they all love spending time together. If I see that dh is particularly tired I say I will do bedtime etc that night so he can unwind. This works well as he appreciates the space to relax and then always wants to spend more time with dcs the next day and is in a positive mindset. a consistent and relentless approach takes time to start but the rewards are massive. Good luck x

He just snaps out of it as soon as DS is in bed and he's had a glass of wine, becomes all cheery.

So it makes him happy to have had a chance to play the tyrant and bullied a 3-year old (when he's not disrespecting his child's mum).
He sounds great.

Sounds familiar. My dad thought it was ok to 'punish' any failure to be respectful and polite by raging, yelling (and hitting, but the verbal stuff would have been bad enough in itself). So he was modelling bad behaviour while insisting on good behaviour. The terrible atmosphere and tension his behaviour caused in the household was blamed on me, and I grew up believing this. He would not consider that his approach might be wrong, as in his view my continuing bad behaviour was proof that I was spoilt and that he needed to get even stricter.

I'm currently working all this out in psychotherapy. I don't think it's any coincidence that I was abused in several relationships when I was younger, that I have had recurrent anxiety, social anxiety and depression since I was a teen, alcohol problems (am now teetotal), self-esteem and emotional regulation problems. I'm avoiding my parents and considering NC.

I really hope you can get this sorted out through parenting classes (for him), separation or something else, sending you for standing your ground and not going along with the 'united front' bollocks xx

Thank you for all the advice, I do definitely feel confused so it really helps to get different perspectives. Although there are elements of DP personality that I don't like, I wouldn't consider him abusive & I'm not ready to leave him. I think he knows he was out of order yesterday, he seems to be making much more of an effort this morning and so far there's been no shouting! I will definitely suggest a parenting class as I think he'll be more willing to try an approach suggested by a professional than suggested by me. We have watched the 3 day nanny before so may watch a few more of those too. As for counselling I have tried before but find it quite difficult to talk about things to an actual person. I have always left after 2 or 3 sessions.

amikatari my dad was like that too, my mum was calm and lovely. I don't think DP is like my dad but I certainly don't want any of those types of discipline techniques for my kids - I'm the big scary boss and you must respect me or else

What sort of counselling did you have OP?

I think it has always been based on CBT

Completely agree with Lost. Your DH sounds stressed out and tired and irritable rather than abusive imo although others will disagree and it's difficult when you can't see the full picture. It's easy to be tired and irritable with two small DC let alone a challenging 3yo and a baby.

You both need to work out a way forward and parent together - what are your strategies with DS at the moment roley?

"The attitude you have as a parent is what your kids will learn from,more than what you tell them.They don't remember what you try to teach them,they remember what you are." Jim henson

I believe this...I can't stand shouting and try to model the behaviour I expect from my kids. Agree with positive parenting class suggestions.

my dad was like that too, my mum was calm and lovely

OP you've married your dad and you're repeating their pattern. Please read the Lundy Bancroft book asap.

I disagree with posters saying this is just 'stress', balanced people don't become rude, disrespectful, angry and shouty simply because they're stressed. And given he's like this all the time where does stress end and personality begin?

The OP says that all she wants is for him to talk 'nicely and respectfully', if that's who he really was he would behave like that most of the time.

I find it really hard to be around him sometimes and if I think he's being out of order find myself telling him to just go away and leave us alone

Not to be at ease with your own husband is very hard to live with 24/7.