Overnight access / minimum standards???

[Everybodyleaves]

Separated 3.5 years, STBXH won't agree terms re kids so not divorced yet

Loads of issues come to a head recently, so I have stopped his access (my summer holiday period with kids just now anyway) pending visit to lawyers this week. He refuses to meet at lawyer but we are incapable of having non-lawyer agreement on previous experience.

I want to agree minimum standards for his alternate weekends:

DD11 and DS7 to have proper bed in a (shared is fine) bedroom - still sleeping on livingroom floor of OW flat 3 years on!

Reasonable bedtimes circa 9-10pm especially on school nights (often up past midnight and watching TV late into night so tired and grumpy at school on Mondays - teachers have commented)

No access to unsuitable videos / films (especially for DS7) well above age range

No access to unsuitable Xbox games well above age ranges.

I do not want DCs to not have weekends with him, but current situation driven me to end of tether and want to start afresh with clear (ideally agreed) rules in place.

What does everyone else do please?? Thanks

I mean, do you just grit your teeth as DCs go out the door and get on with it, or have you managed to get some rules in place??

Hi OP I am currently at the beginning of shared custody and my X isn't exactly easy to deal with either so can sympathise. However if it is only alternate weekends I would pick my battles rather than trying to win the whole war as it were. The age-appropriate DVD and Xbox thing would be a big one... What does he say when tackled?
As for sleeping on ow's floor, I can remember sleeping on floor for six months or so when staying at my dad's house and it didn't bother me much. What did bother me was the high conflict between my parents. I'd just try to reinforce standards gently with the DCs at home, and not stress about the small and medium sized stuff, only the really big issues.

Hi Common he refuses to discuss it with me. He is often buying them things they want, presents, I think out of guilt (he left me, and therefore them - although he did try and make me leave marital home initially!)

Lot of issues revolve around him trying to exert control.

Late bedtimes have been impacting on bedtimes at mine for a while, but I have riden out the tantrums and stuck to my times. I am fairly strict tbh, so therefore often the bad guy as they don't get to do everything they get away with his. DCs don't like sleeping on floor as novelty has well worn off.

Age appropriate stuff has been rumbling a wee while but DS7 was bought Assassins Creed (15) a couple of weeks ago, DS told by STBXH that it was bad parenting to let him have it, then DS was told by STBXH and OW to lie to me about it. Final straw after months and months of FW behaviour.

I think you need to be careful about not using the children as pawns in this. The access is for their benefit, by punishing him you are also punishing them.

It's hard when you don't agree on basic childrearing 'rules', yes. But he is also their parent and allowed to make his own decisions about them while they are with them.

I agree that you should try and negotiate with him over the really important ones and not bother with the smaller stuff. I think if you go in with a long list then it's easier for him to just dismiss it all as nagging/control issues and not take the more important ones seriously. Sleeping on the floor (presumably on a camping mattress/cushions, not literally on the floor itself) is no biggie. The games and DVDs, well, I'm mostly with you (although I would vet some and let my son use some older age group ones) but I know a lot of parents don't see any problems with this and it's quite normal in some families. I think you should grit your teeth over this one.

The late bedtimes before school is the biggest problem as it is negatively effecting your children's education. As he should be having contact from the school on an equal basis with you, when you say the teacher's are commenting, ask them to contact you both directly about it, not just talk to you for you to pass the message on. He might take it more seriously then.

Re punishing the kids - that is why I have done it now to minimise the impact on the kids as they were not due to see him for a few weeks anyway.

Can't grit my teeth over game because of their actions in trying to cover it up. They know it is wrong too.

We go separately to parents nights so I don't know what is said to him then, again he won't discuss.

Sleeping on the floor in the living room is totally unacceptable. Your DC need a bedroom of their own.

I feel your pain... But there ain't a lot you can do

My DDS didn't get to bed even on Sunday night, dd2 used to sleep at school on Mondays and teacher knew why. He even rang me one Monday when taking her to school as she screamed and tantrumed - I told him his doing he needed to sort it out - sadly he just didn't get that late nights excessive coke and sweets = this behaviour.

They are much older now and its easier, I didn't encourage over night stays and eventually they stopped

They sleep on duvets or sleeping bags directly on the floor btw

Hi Bonsoir yes I agree. Is a small 2 bed flat and I feel they should have replaced OW DD14? massive loft bed with triple bunk so all could sleep in one room those weekends (2x girls in double part). That us what I would have done. Kids all get on well.

Either that, or my kids sleep in OW bedroom, and OW and STBXH take the livingroom!!

Ok sounds like there is a lot more going on here than first appeared... You are right to stick to your guns. What does your solicitor say?

If your ex cannot offer his DC proper human accommodation, your DC should not be expected to spend nights at his home.

I agree, the children should should have a room of their own. It is effectively their second home. Late nights and sleeping on a floor is effecting their education and this is the main reason I would take forward with the solicitor.

Hi yes Common I have had a long 3.5 years of issues. Going to lawyer on Thursday.

ivy that is awful! Can't believe taking then to school with absolutely no sleep!! Not had any asleep in class incidents (yet!)

Bonsoir and Little Lady I too think a proper bed in a bedroom is a minimum and I have only let it go on so long so they spend time with him, but the lack of rules or reasonable boundaries on top of everything else has driven me to this.

I fear lawyer will tell me I cannot impose this, he has been unreasonable (IMHO) throughout. He was before, hence split.

Desperate to be divorced and legally free of him (obviously except for DC matters!)

You can try to get it into a court order (or get him to agree through mediation) but the difficulty then is enforcement. How do you enforce it? By stopping contact? Courts will really frown on you if you're seen to be stopping contract for anything that's not a child safety issue.

Unfortunately there's a certain type of individual who, if asked not to do x, will immediately insist on doing x, so the more you insist on it, the more difficult they'll be. With that kind of person you just have to hide your annoyance, because they'll revel in it and do more and more of the same.

You might be able to achieve some small victories in this, but for a lot of it, you have to let go, grit your teeth, and remind yourself that in a few years the dcs will be old enough to make all this irrelevant.

We tried mediation (twice) at his insistence - I refused to pay the second time as he just used it as an opportunity to lie, insult, blame me for EVERYTHING, and to say I took no responsibility at all. He can be very charming and persuasive whereas I'm a bit shy but WYSIWYG kind of girl, no pretence. I walked out of the final session, laughing at the ridiculousness of it as he accused me of being "a bully now, and throughout the marriage" when actually, that was what he did to me!

Can't afford the court option and as you say, still unable to enforce it

Not got many teeth left - have gritted and ground them so much!!

You have my sympathy!

Not too many years till they can start to make their own choices about spending time with their father, and if they're still on the floor in a few years' time, I can't imagine they'll be too keen.

Thanks Bibliomania

I can understand your frustrations but withdrawing contact is a very serious measure and should only done when there is imminent physical or emotional danger.

I've had previous bed time and dietary gripes with but he will almost certainly do the exact opposite to what I think is sensible. As an earlier poster said, pick your battles, which is what you must do to avoid getting sucked into a power struggle which will damage your children.
Ex is due to have DD for 96 hrs a month and I figure that's not enough time for DD's diet or sleep routine to be permanently damaged.

When co-parenting with combative arseholes pragmatism is the order of the day. Yes Disney Dad gift giving (especially since my Ex pays no maintenance) is maddening but DD knows that getting presents isn't a declaration of love, just as she knows that when I don't buy everything she wants it doesn't mean I don't love her. Your children are growing up in two households, which means different rules and standards. Your children playing up at bedtimes is just them testing that your boundaries are exactly where you say they are, now they know they will stick to them.

You'll never get your Ex to be responsible, so don't waste your time trying. The only thing that you can do is support your children when they are dealing with their father and encourage them to look after themselves.

When co-parenting with combative arseholes pragmatism is the order of the day

Think I'll embroider this on my sofa cushions.

Well I feel DS is in immediate danger as already struggling emotionally and exposing him to violent movies (Hunger Games x2 - great but not for 7yo) and Assassins Creed is totally inappropriate, as is telling him to lie to me!

He already has additional support in school and undiagnosed issues (waiting ADHD assessment). Struggles with making and keeping friends, has tantrums, gets frustrated very easily yet can be sweet and endearing wee boy.

If FW STBXH will not agree to eliminate above and provide suitable bed /bedrooms I do not want DCs staying overnight.

Hi, have you considered speaking to ss to report that whilst under his care they do not have beds, sleep on the floor and that the 7 year old is watching violent films. I think ss view not having proper beds is a sign of neglect to be honest.

Just thought I would put it out there as an option you may not have considered. But understand this could massively complicate an already complex situation. You could always phone them to discuss it and for advice and see what they say.

( am wondering of this a stupid or a great idea....! )

You can't do this. I totally understand your frustration but he is just as much their parent as you. Lying I get you'd want to have out with him but all you can do is tell him why it's not on. The games, bedtimes etc are a difference of parenting opinion and it sucks but he has the right to make those decisions, you don't have the right to impose your rules in his home. I agree with you on these things btw but that doesn't change anything.

Wrt inappropriate sleeping arrangements that is a social services issue. One of the requirements is that they have a suitable place to sleep, even if it's a pull out sofa bed or something so make the referral and let them deal with it. Personally I'd also mention that the late bedtimes are impacting on school and that school have expressed concern, ss may deal with that, they may not but at least you can try.

Withholding contact is for immediate risk of physical, emotional or sexual harm and, if you end up in court, they will find you as controlling and difficult about contact if you do it for almost any other reason.

I know it's crap though and I do feel for you.

Todayisnot I agree with your comment.

My exhb still shares a bed with my 5yr old son when he has him and allows him to stay up till he falls asleep through sheer tiredness 'because he hardly sees him so why should he put him to bed early'

The court did not agree to anything I asked for when he has him and basically said he's the dad it's his responsibility and decisions.

4 yrs down the line I just need to suck it up and deal with the overtired and highly strung out child who is returned after every visit.

Oh and who now says 'dad will let me do this, dad will get me that!' When told no at home

As galling as it is, today is absolutely right. There is precious little, if anything, you can do