Overnight access / minimum standards???

[Everybodyleaves]

Separated 3.5 years, STBXH won't agree terms re kids so not divorced yet

Loads of issues come to a head recently, so I have stopped his access (my summer holiday period with kids just now anyway) pending visit to lawyers this week. He refuses to meet at lawyer but we are incapable of having non-lawyer agreement on previous experience.

I want to agree minimum standards for his alternate weekends:

DD11 and DS7 to have proper bed in a (shared is fine) bedroom - still sleeping on livingroom floor of OW flat 3 years on!

Reasonable bedtimes circa 9-10pm especially on school nights (often up past midnight and watching TV late into night so tired and grumpy at school on Mondays - teachers have commented)

No access to unsuitable videos / films (especially for DS7) well above age range

No access to unsuitable Xbox games well above age ranges.

I do not want DCs to not have weekends with him, but current situation driven me to end of tether and want to start afresh with clear (ideally agreed) rules in place.

What does everyone else do please?? Thanks

BTW I didn't mean it's galling to say today is right. I mean it's galling to have to accept that there's little you can do

SS /SW involvement seems like a rather drastic move.....????

Once done, it can't be undone and he makes life unpleasant enough as it is

Do the children want to go?

They don't have to watch the dvds or play the games and they don't have to lie to you, which they don't seem to be doing.

What actual benefit are they getting from being with this twat?

What is the OW like with them?

SS did stop my dd having overnights for a few weeks last summer with her dad because she (a 5yr old girl) was sharing a bed with him. I hadn't reported him for that because I didn't know about it - SS involvement happened as a result of something else. She still had daytime contact. He did end up getting a bed for her and overnights were resumed.

I'm not in favour of lightly making SS recommendations, but it may be no harm to phone up the local team and asking their advice. It may be that they'd have a low-key word with him and spur him on to do something about it.

Ss are highly unlikely to go in all guns. Much more likely is a low key chat about acceptable living arrangements. Once they are happy the case will be closed out. They only keep a case open for serious or ongoing concerns. It is quite possible that having someone official explain that he has to do things properly will shut him up. He sounds like he's being a bully to you and they frequently back off once they realise they can't get away with their crap.

It's completely your call but you are expressing concerns about the welfare of your children and there is an agency specifically designed to deal with that.

Btw, after this length of time she isn't the ow any more. She's his partner. Another difficult one but accepting that will make life easier for everyone usually.

I may be wrong, but there is no expectation that a NRP provides a dedicated sleeping space for a NRChild, is there?
This was one of the biggest objections to the bedroom tax - NRP would be forced to downsize and children would no longer have a bedroom.

But Soc Serv dept do not step in and prevent o/n care in those circumstances. Camping out on the living room floor is the reality for a lot of NR children, unfortunately.

call nspcc/local ss and talk it through but you might find that so long as they sleep on something eg a mattress they hardly going to to recommend no contact. lots of people share rooms etc. in a big city with high housing costs sharing rooms is the norm, however nice it would be for kids to have their individual rooms at both houses. it isn't realistic.

you could have the kids back sunday evening so they go to bed by eg ten pm or nine pm if that would help but better would be school saying to him oh on your weekends they v tired can you get them to bed earlier?

you cant control the videos/dvds.

The DVDs are being shown in the livingroom, so they have little choice to watch them as they can't go to sleep as everyone in their "bedroom" watching the DVDs.

Will see if I can get advice on the SS/SW thing, thanks.

OW is the politest term I have ever used for her - you don't know the backstory, so please don't judge - and even if they end up marrying (yippee because that'd mean I'd be divorced!!), she will never have any place in my life, or my life with my kids. She has never been invited to and DCs parties I have held, and never will be. He has (no option with him). I suspect she may be the reason the sleeping arrangements remain as they are, but have no proof of that and he's unlikely to confirm that anyway (as it would show either lack of judgement on his part, or lack of authority over her and that is how he would view it before anyone leaps on me).

I like the idea of having them back on Sunday nights though as it solves a few issues, but I cannot see him agreeing to that as he has asked for Thursday nights too! Will explore that option with lawyer.

Thanks to all for your input and suggestions (whether I liked hearing them or not)

Wakey, they do have to have reasonable sleeping arrangements. A sleeping bag straight on the living room floor is not reasonable. A blow up mattress or sofa bed in the living room would be though.

Everybody, I'm not judging you, honestly. The fact that she was the ow is enough to indicate a back story and I've not heard a good one yet!

Today sorry - didn't mean to imply that I thought you were judging me.

I know it would be easier all round if I would even tolerate OW, but I just can't / won't go there. Too much betrayal to get past, I'm afraid.

Also, if school have commented on them being tired on a Monday, Ask them to contact their dad, and call him on for a meeting with them ( and without you). This is an issue they need to raise with him and not you. Maybe the inconvenience of being called into school to discuss the welfare if his children, as well as a visit from ss might make home realise being a parent is not all sleep overs on the floor and late night films.

I used to work in an electrical store a decade ago and you could spot the dads on access days who felt guilty because they were the ones buying a really expensive computer game for their DC every Saturday.

I had one of them go tonto at me because I dared to ask their sons age. To make sure he was over 15.
Because it was the shop assistant who would get fined £1000 for selling it to an under age child/teen not the store.
I wasn't the only one Quite a few of these dads got arsey with my ex co workers too.

Okay...SW (I phoned anonymously for advice) said that DCs MUST have a proper bed each, and ideally in a bedroom but to speak with my lawyer for guidance.

Have decided that getting DCs back Sunday nights after dinner / for bedtime is my preferred option for future access so I can be certain they are sleeping well and they are ready for school on Mondays - thanks cestlavie for putting that idea out there (can't believe I didn't think of it!). DS7 okay with that, DD11 not happy/in tears when I spoke to them about it.

Lawyer tomorrow...

Darkeyes apparently DS7 begged to be allowed to spend his pocket money on it (second hand game) and was present when it was bought...

Good stuff - it feels like you're in a stronger position armed with this information. Best of luck with the solicitor.

Lawyer went really well. Feeling better than have been for weeks.

Going to court. Divorce writ being drawn up and she advised not letting him have kids until he has been served and responded. Then, once he has agreed some standards/boundaries, he will get them only for the two nights at alternate weekends so home with me Sundays for bedtime.

Wish me luck x

Here's luck! Glad the consultation went well - it's a great feeling to be taking action rather than being at the mercy of events. Fingers crossed for you!

Thanks biblio

OMG - talk about relieving stress! I totally conked out on the couch after my earlier post and "napped" for an hour and a half!! Just feel that a weight has been lifted from me.

Thanks to all for your advice, kind words and sharing your opinions x

I don't know about the rules for second hand/charity shops/cash converters type places. My above post was my experience when I worked at Comet ten years ago.

I was told the shop assistant would get fined £1000 and have to find it while only n pennies more than the minimum wage.....rather than the fine being absorbed by the store.

Fair enough but why are store workers the only ones getting into trouble for selling them while irresponsible fuckwits like your ex get to show these games/films in homes of kids as young as seven and get off scott free.

Hi Darkesteyes it was the local branch of Game, I think. They buy then resell games.

Oh I see I have no idea if the rules may have changed in the last ten years.

They were really strict on it back then. Yet wouldn't back us up when these dads were shouting the odds at the till.

Then the managers moaned at us for not meeting the sales targets.