Petty squabbles/bickering

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We've had a stressful year. DH is now on holidays and I thought it'd be better/easier once the holidays arrived. But we're around each other more so it's actually worse!

How much bickering is normal for you? How do we stop it? We're both exhausted and have a lot on our plates still. DH just seems to have such little patience. He's not always clear (to me) and I then ask him to repeat something which he hates. He often has this sighing thing going on it eye rolling. I'm probably just as bad. But we can't seem to stop.

Our last crossed words were just now about my method of bringing the shopping in (I left bags by the front door rather than all the way inside (he was inside) but that was because DS (2) was out the front 'helping' and I didn't want to leave him out unsupervised while I brought the bags into the kitchen and I thought DH would happily collect then from the front door instead of coming out to the car to get the next lot - make sense?! In any case, we squabbled about it! It feels like it's like this with everything and I find myself thinking "it'll be better when" but it never is!

Any thoughts on how to get out of this rut?

He's just criticised me again. It's the constant criticism. I said how it's like he has a tick list of things he needs to get done and if I don't do them the right way (whatever that is!) then he criticises me. He then proved my point by saying 'at least I do things off my list of things to do' (meaning I don't). I picked him up on this but he just made some other comment which I forget but was along the lines of how be wouldn't need to make comments if I just did stuff/did it right. and yes we were still talking about me leaving a couple of bags of shopping on the door step rather than putting them in the hall when I went to get more bags.

Reading this I know what you'll say. Bear in mind that this is a tiny snap shot of what he's like. Apart from the bickering he's great in so many ways.

Constant criticism over petty matters is bullying, pure and simple. 'Not bringing in the shopping the right way' is about as petty and ridiculous as it gets. He's picking on you because it gives him satisfaction to feel superior and see you so uncomfortable. It doesn't get better when you're on holiday because it isn't caused by stress. It's caused by him wanting to be exert his authority and be in control

I'm sure he is great when he's not belittling you and bullying you. You're probably making extra effort to avoid the sighing and eye-rolling. You'll be trying to do things 'the right way' for a quiet life.

Understand the motives here and then stand up to him every time he pulls this shit. Tell him to roll his eyes right back in his stupid head and fetch his own shopping. Zero tolerance.

I recognise the thought that 'it'll be better when....' and 'well, there's a lot going on right now...'

As you've found - it's never better, and there's always a lot going on.

You could try telling him there is no one right way to do anything: that it's not worth arguing about every little thing; that as far as you know, he hasn't got a direct connection to the 'correct way to do it' database, etc.....but chances are he'll turn it on you, and make you out to be difficult and exhausting.

You'll stop bickering if/when you start to like each other again. Do you spend any quality time together? When's the last time you went out for a meal/drink together and had a laugh?

It could just be that he's an arse, of course.

We went out for a meal a month, maybe six weeks ago. We do have laughs and good times. But we've had a really really stressful few months/year in many ways and it's taking its toll.

Not to bicker at all in a marriage is unusual. Even Jesus might get on your nerves eventually. If your present bad patch isn't what you have been used to then you could put it down to stress. You say that you have laughs and a good time and you also say, that in terms of critising you are just as bad at the eye rolling stuff. Trying to control anyone in a relationship is bullying though and It is very hard living with a control freak. He may not realise the extent of his bullying and the effect that it is having on you, unless you can calmly and assertively tell him. It is very corroding to a relationship to have a constant pick,pick.going on. When he starts telling you what to do and how to do things, do you start shrieking as a response? Do you think that as you are stressed and fed up too that you could be looking for a fight? Is there any chance that someone could look after your DC and you could deliberately go out and have some fun ? It seems to me you need a break. This does not mean that I think you should sweep his critising of you under the carpet. I just think you should rule out his behaviour being in response to stress. To alter his behaviour would need counselling. That depends on whether he would consider it and whether you could afford it, and whether you both think your marriage is worth saving.

I'm definitely stressed and fed up. There's just to much to do at the moment. :(

He definitely has controlling moments but it's really not always been like this. We used to get along brilliantly. Kids definitely messed it up (not the children at all but the added tiredness/hard work of having two little ones).

I do tend to shriek, tell him to go away and leave me alone. It makes me so angry but I don't know how to control my response or how to get him to see what he's saying. Is there a way? The more time goes on the angrier I become as a person. I've started swearing a lot more than I ever did and I think it's an expression of all the frustration and anger I feel generally (quite a lot of feeling that I'm pulled in too many directions and never get a break - I went out for a meal with friends 3 weeks ago and that was the last time I had any time away from both or one of the children except in the supermarket!). I can't remember the last time before that.

It's definitely worth saving. Definitely. Once we've had a bicker we always apologise to each other. But at the moment it's not long before we bicker over something else. I can feel my hackles rising over the slightest thing, like whether he was actually going to go downstairs with our toddler so I could lie in for once. He did but it's too late in my head as I've been awake since half six due to children so I can't go back to sleep (was feeding baby).

Think I might book a baby sitter for next week. We need a holiday away from home and all the stresses that it brings being round here/needing to meet others' demands (family stuff going on) and doing housework/all the jobs we have to do. But we can't go away as we have too much to do and not enough money.

Can you work out a rota where each of you get some time alone while the other looks after the kids? DH used to have Saturday mornings and I had Sunday mornings.

I agree that you need to be assertive and tell him to stop picking. DH does this and it really gets me down. There's always a fault with everything. I'm just about able now to say no, don't speak to me like that (I used to end up crying instead of angry).

'Oh dear, I brought the shopping in the wrong way again. Never mind. Next time you can take the kids and do the shopping and then it will be done just right, eh?'

And whilst you are at it; have a look at your down time; if he is getting more down time than you then you need to readdress this balance.

I don't think he's getting more down time. I've offered to take the kids out this afternoon so he can do whatever (prob more jobs that need doing but that's fine) and I eagerly awaited a response that would be when he's going to glad them out so I can do stuff/chill. But he didn't - I'm not surprised, i need to be more assertive and say so then I'm going to do x,y,z and you can go out with the kids. He has suggested it loads actually but it never happens because ok bf the baby though she should be fine for a few hours now. Plus I kind of resent it a bit (call me crazy) when they go and have fun somewhere without me! Maybe I'm the controlling one?!

If I'm assertive and tell him to stop picking then I'm pretty sure he'll just carry on!

Being assertive is way more different from being aggressive. My DH does not respond well to shrieking( who does) after years and years together I want us to be happy and I am a bit of a shrieky control freaky mad person. I get annoyed easily and I think if he had posted on Mumsnet he would have been told to boot me out. So what have I done to make things better? Recognition is important. Recognising what you yourself are like and that a relationship is a two way stretch is a start. As soon as I feel my hackles rising over something trivial I practise a form of mindfulness ( never had lessons, but have read a bit) I have an internal dialogue with myself. I can control my mind and therefore my mouth. I try to remember how I felt when I first met my DH, how beautiful I thought he was etc. I can stop my unreasonable behaviour dead. It is better than my 42 year old marriage being dead in the water, which I don't want. I have also stopped using crying as a weapon ,as although very satisfying for me, it can be used to get your own way, too often. Deadpan assertiveness is much more constructive. Repeating, ' what you have just said is hurtful and destructive to our relationship' without rolling your eyes or making faces. Whatever his response is, you say ' I have said how I feel' and say no more. It is very hard to argue with someone who will not argue back.I think men need lists as well as they don't think like us. I make lists.. Ie, take dog for a walk and then at the end I put something daft, like ' cover Wiffie with chocolate and lick it off in the hope of getting some impromptu sex. Making him laugh and having a laugh together is so satisfying. A marriage needs caring for. It is like keeping a plant alive. You can hardly care for a plant and it will struggle to survive but if you give it optimum light and food then it will flourish. ( bit soppy) l

That makes total sense. Thank you! I'll be back but busy!

So how do I do mindfulness? Is it as simple as an inner mantra? I know that I'm exactly as you describe holeinmyheart. Is there a way I can get DH to practise mindfulness too? Could we both read a book on it, for example. It's something that I'd like to try as I've heard of it and think it would be helpful.

And I really liked your soppiness!!

Sorry for the delay in Posting back but I was in transit. I have not studied Mindfulness but I am actually going on a free course in September. They are run though the Primary Care Trust. I would like CBT as well. This is because my Father nearly killed me body and soul. Anyway that is another story. What I do is when I feel my self getting upset ( I get upset very easily) I focus inwardly and talk to myself. I say things such ' is this really important enough to fight over? If you get upset where do think this is going? ( often it has led to sobbing hysterically in the downstairs Wc) I can control my body with my mind. Not wholly, as I still need Beta Blockers on occasion. I love Bb as they stop me feeling, without being made drowsy. To get on the course I just googled it. Try that. My husband does not need to go on one. He is kind and patient and I have been mean to him. I feel ashamed, but then he let me behave like I have because of his own issues. I don't know how you can make your DH do anything, but if he sees you change he will change accordingly. Hope this helps. Xx

It really does help, thank you. And I'm sorry to hear of your issues.

I think I might have done it earlier, in a way. I was changing the baby's nappy (total disaster poo leakage) on the front seat of the car as I had no alternative and I could feel myself getting really angry. I kind of stopped and thought "what is it that's making me angry? Will being angry change anything?" And I realised that it wouldn't,and I realised that I was annoyed because she kept spreading poo everywhere, which is just one of those things. So I definitely controlled myself more. DH and I haven't bickered since Saturday either which going by the previous days before Saturday is somewhat of a miracle, especially with DS's lack of sleeping properly!

Thank you, I'm most definitely going to look into mindfulness properly xx

Also, I have whizzed through the thread and noticed that bit where you offered to look after the kids so he could have a bit of time to himself. Then you waited for him to do the same for you,.

Don't. You cannot make someone read your mind. If what you actually wanted was some time to yourself, ask for it. Suggest it, clearly.

If you are both stressed out then time out separately and together sounds a good plan and that you are halfway there already. Good luck with it.

We had some time without the kids yesterday which was nice. He still got in a mood on the way there because my directions weren't clear. Hm. But it was otherwise fine.

Today was fine except he criticised me for not putting the beeper on the oven to remind me about the cooking on the hob. I did a panicked 'oh no!!' and ran to the kitchen and all was fine with the food. But he picked and picked and I said what was up thread. But he continued and I rose to it. He continued to criticise, told me it was a no-brainer and that's why the timers were there. I counted him saying it five times (you've told me, that's the fourth time). He still went on.

I emailed him some links to how criticism destroys marriages/relationships. I just hope he reads them. It's only small stuff but the size of the stuff just makes it all the more noticeable. If he was criticising me for doing something dangerous or risky then fine. But he's doing it for things that don't make a massive difference to the world. After a good few days I'm feeling subdued tonight.

I've told him I need time out from the kids and we had it together yesterday but actually I would like some time alone! Not had any for ages. I can't remember the last time I was alone.

He is coming across as quite a bully, unsureif.

Getting moody because directions aren't clear? Why?
Then five reminders about the wonders of cooking timers. :( Why didn't he go and check on the food himself, or say sorry darling, why don't you let me help. Instead of treating you like a child in need of instruction.

I imagine if you told him something he slipped up with is a 'no-brainer' he might not take it well. That's quite belittling.

Yes I know.

He seems to get frustrated so easily. He was trying to do a job at the time but he had originally said he was going to cook DS's tea. I was bf the baby hence my 'oh crap the food!'.

So he feels bad because cooking was on 'his' list, and he let you take over and it went wrong (for him) then he projects this bad feeling onto you, making it your fault. He really needs to loosen up. Does he exercise regularly? Also you might find daily exercise (could be stretching in the garden) may give you a dose of time alone and reduce physical tension and increase tolerance to frustration.

I say this mindful of the fact that other people are making useful comments about the criticism.

Why did you do the food OP? How does it go from 'I'll do DS's tea' to 'it's a no brainer'?

funky because DS was asking for his tea and DH was in the middle of putting together something! DIY... So I put on DS's pasta then sat down to feed DD while the water was boiling but left it a bit too long. It was fine though I did panic it'd have boiled over/boiled dry.

He doesn't do any exercise no. And neither do I to be fair. It's not something that he would have time for regularly (although we could make time). He used to do loads when younger. I definitely think I'd benefit. But it's hard finding the time with the two little ones. I know I could if I really had the desire as plenty of other people manage it. I do walk a lot with the buggy/sling if that counts!

benzal I'm finding the comments useful. Much more preferable to 'LTB' which I'm not going to do.

Ok this isn't petty squabbles, this is bullying.

Could he not have just put the thing that he was putting together down just for (a timed) ten minutes? If you are cooking the tea what the jolly fuck has it got to do with him if it cooks for another minute or so?

He seems to think his time is more important than yours plus when you don't do things his way, he bullies you by going on and on about it, for no real reason.

But you aren't going to LTB. So I guess you will it have to get used to it.

It's not mindfulness you need, but a different husband.

funky don't you believe in working through problems? What about those 'for better for worse' vows? It hasn't always been like this. Did you not read the full thread? How I'm not exactly easy myself?

Your post is most unnecessarily harsh. Don't you think that if it were always like this then I'd have never married TB in the first place?