Archers thread #146: They did fall apart. Can they put themselves together again? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to donate your time as a guide at Lower Loxley to save the Pargetters paying someone else a living wage, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Impostersyndrome for the thread title suggestion Buses and trains are sorely lacking, canals might be nearby, but all roads lead to Ambridge, picking up on transport discussions in the last thread. In the end I didn't use it, having in mind the character limit. @TottersBlankly contributed an early draft title Wreathes, wrath, writhing (Jennifer, Lilian, Ruairi). Both good starting points for the new thread, which I hope will last till Jennifer's funeral, surely not too far off now. So, over to you - whither the Aldridges? Also, does anyone care if Lee goes to the US? Is anyone even slightly interested in the Brookfield B&B venture?

How old is LL meant to be? Hard to imagine anything 19th C or before isn't tainted by slavery money

When Freddie was giving his dullsville lecture he said 1702. So yes, the whole of LoLo is tainted beyond recovery. There’s nothing else for it, they’ll just have to close the whole thing down.

Well done, Nolly! You cancelled Lower Loxley! That’ll show ‘em! 👍

I think with the painting, is that nobody has cared enough to think about its content before.
For Freddie it is literally part of the furniture.
For visitors there are probably loads more interesting pictures, especially as the main character isn't a Pargetter.
I bet there is only a tiny % of black people going through on visits given the demographic of the area.
The more general awareness on old families making their money from slavery has only risen up in recent years.

As to what to do with the painting - I know it's not her responsibility, but having raised the issue Nolly could make some suggestions, or at least talk through options with Freddie.

The painting is a red herring. There are so many ways to keep things on view and have a display, information and so on about them on view.
Confronting the past honestly and with input from, say, Black History Groups (and i am sure there must be some) is the way to go.

The historical museum in Frankfurt is a great example. You go in and it's all about the iron age, the saxons, the romans and each floor you go up you get further towards the present. And one thing i like to do is wait round the corner from the escalator to the 3rd floor. You come up and have to turn sharp left, do a 180° turn in effect to get to the next part. And the first thing you see is a massive swastika. And everyone who sees it is pulled up short - and what comes next is, there is no other word, harrowing. They do not flinch. They describe the rise of the Nazis, IG Farben and how they used slave workers, the local concentration camp - there are uniforms, exhibits, all sorts of things and you get round the end of that part and you need a breather.

It is confrontational and in your face. It is completely honest. And when you get to the next part of the exhibition - the post war to modern period, it is there in your brain, but you know that the past is in the past and we look forward - never forgetting.

gosh sorry, that was heavy. But it really is one of the best things I've ever seen.

I think that's the point @Brefugee. By hiding it in the attic Freddie is saying 'out of sight out of mind' and it needs to be addressed. Making random reparations isn't really the answer either, none of it is Freddie's fault but, at the very least, the true story and the historical impact should be explained. I'm not sure what the full answer is, it's too huge an issue.

Historical horrors have to be confronted to be free to build a better future.

If the LL painting is effectively built into the wall as a panel is there a possiblity that it's included in the architectural listing, and that Freddy can't just remove it anyway?

I am firmly in the "be open and honest" in this kind of situation. I find it uncomfortable (I spent a lot of time in Bristol in the 80s and even back then the fact that so many things had the Colston name was A Thing back then. This isn't a new thing (and finally it boiled over in Bristol so we probably ought to talk before that kind of thing happens again)

Open honest conversations. And maybe pay the guides.

Also: not sure if it was here or elsewhere that it was mentioned, but Adam really ought to have just given Susan that scarf.

I agree about the scarf, I think this story might continue - there was a noticeable difference between how oblivious Adam was to the quality, cost and amount of clothes Jenny had and how aware Susan was of it all. Maybe Susan will buy the scarf from the charity it is donated to?
I do think Susan is being brilliantly supportive and kind to them all and they just aren't noticing, so maybe the scarf situation is to symbolise that?

Are there really still Bring & Buy sales in the UK? I'd have thought that any organisation wanting to raise money would find a member good at online sales and give them a modest percentage to shift the stuff as profitably as possible.

Actually, a BOOP for the SW for clothing Susan in dignity and restraint and distinguishing her from her evil brother. And for not having Adam do the obvious thing and offer it to her. I hope she will be offered it in the end - we’ve seen how organised Jenny was; I wouldn’t be surprised if she’d left it to Susan in her will.

It’s very poor of the family to get rid of all her stuff before they know what she might have liked to leave for people outside the immediate family.

I’m imaging just how many Hèrmes scarves Brian must have given her for Christmases and birthdays over the decades …

just how many Hèrmes scarves Brian must have given her which are now worth £100s. Crazy to send them to a village B&B.

I wish I could 'do' scarves and the like.

I go to a weekly choir which is mainly women 50-80, and most of them look so 'together' compared with me. A nice knitted top with a scarf, jeans/trousers and some ankle boots, makeup.
There I am in my hoodie and ecco shoes. I haven't found ankle boots to feel comfy in, scarves would just annoy me, knitwear is a pain to wash.

Sorry, that should be in S&B.

So glad you’re all too polite to point out the misplaced è in my post above! Clearly my phone is punishing me for some unacknowledged slight.

Jesus Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey, you've never seen Line of Duty?

@NeverApologiseNeverExplain - Nope. We haven't had a TV since moving back to the UK in 2013. Don't miss it.

Surely Paddy has to be James Nesbitt?

I live near Powis Castle and they’ve done the ‘upfront and honest’ thing regarding all the looted Indian treasure in the Clive of India museum. He was a real piece of work! It’s very interesting.

We all silently judged you, @TottersBlankly

Well they used to be the classic BA duty free buy on a plane gift

But no-one in Ambridge ever travels anywhere- we know that

I wonder if the scarf being the item of note indicated Susan and JD are not the same size? (As most of us suspected one way or another.)

I'd love Susan to get her hands on loads of JD's nice stuff. I think she's one person who would really appreciate it. I suspect if it were given to Emma it would only increase the heft of that chip on her shoulder, although she should have nice things too, of a life.

I've just listened and I didn't get the impression Susan wanted the scarf. She said 'Only Jennifer could carry off those colours' or words to that effect which, to my mind, means 'anyone else would look a complete clown'.

I've been sat listening to R4 today whilst working (nothing too taxing), and heard the programme about Chat GPT. I thought I would give their Image AI a go. This is NOT how I imagined Susan Carter:

NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Brendan Gleeson as Paddy? A bit too young, but it's radio not telly.

Good Lord, @Madcats !