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Original poster

Whilst I'm sorry for those being gazundered you really can't blame the buyers can you?

57 replies

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:18

I mean if you could save 20 - 30K on a purchase you would wouldn't you?

It's a lot of money. And I'm sure it makes a huge difference to the purchasers.

And it's up to the vendor to decide whether to take it or not. You can always say no.

That's the power of the bargain surely .. isn't it?

OP posts:

cyanarasamba · 17/10/2008 18:21

it's not fair for the purchaser to not be upfront between making an offer and exchange of contracts - this wastes the vendors time and puts them in a very difficult position. They have to choose between losing the house they are purchasing (as no time to find another buyer) or accepting the reduced price. The gazunderer has them by the short and curlies....

Original poster

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:24

Well maybe not fair exactly. But that's the market nowadays. And it's not like the buyers can force the sale, the vendor has to agree to be undercut. Which just proves that that flexibility / fear is there.

I'm just saying that you can't be aghast that a family would want to save a substantial amount on a purchase if they can do so .. particular with markets falling.

OP posts:

MamaChris · 17/10/2008 18:25

indeed cyan. it's not the lower price that sticks in the craw, but the agreement on one price, and the last minute reduction after the vendor has already spent money on fees, survey on a new property they may no longer be able to afford (and have already set their hearts on)...

if I had to gazunder to save 30k on a purchase, no, I wouldn't. I would bargain hard with my initial offer, but after that, barring unexpecteds in the survey, would stick to that price. I wouldn't have offered it if I couldn't afford it.

Lauriefairycake · 17/10/2008 18:26

I have no problem with people doing this and everyone in the chain doing this given the new market circumstance.

I have a problem with people who leave it to the moment of exchange to suddenly demand - I mean, it's just not cricket is it ?

NorthernLurker · 17/10/2008 18:27

Thebargaining takes place at the start of negotiations. Buyers offer to buy the house subject to a survey. If the survey is fine then they should pay the price they offered. If that price is more than they can afford then they should have never offered to start with. If they can afford it then they should keep their word and pay up. Buying a house is a huge decision and has a huge impact on everyone in the chain. You just don't play around with peoples lives - thats what gazunderers do. So yes - i do blame them and judge them and consider it morally reprehensible!

crokky · 17/10/2008 18:27

I don't agree with the OP. Agree with cyanarasamba and don't know how buyers like that sleep at night. As I remember that thread - the vendors are a young family and the purchasers are a well off couple buying a London flat for their child. Utterly shameful. It's blackmail and ought to be illegal - the vendors can say no at the outset of course - but just before exchange, no, they were in a really difficult position.

McDreamy · 17/10/2008 18:27

No sorry I disagree Twig. Wrong way to go about business. Very low

PictureThis · 17/10/2008 18:28

I'm sorry but I'm old fashioned and think that if you make an offer and it is accepted then you absolutely do not make a further offer 20 or 30K below original offer price just before exchange of contracts. It's just wrong and buyers who do that should be ashamed.

Original poster

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:28

It's not cricket. But the buyer can decide not to accept a drop.

And I'm sorry MamaC .. it seems very unfair to be discussing the trauma you're going through so objectively. I'm not commenting on your decision directly. Just the concept.

I mean there are people here plotting your revenge .. and really I can't blame them for trying .. even if I wouldn't do so

OP posts:

Freckle · 17/10/2008 18:28

The sale of property in England and Wales is unique in that it has to be evidence in writing. No other contract requires that. I think if you make an offer and it is accepted, then you should be bound by that contract unless any survey or other investigation shows good reason why the price should be reduced.

I suspect that, if this continues, purchasers will be required to enter into a pre-contract agreement with a deposit, to ensure that last minute gazundering doesn't take place unless there is a good reason.

CaptainKarvol · 17/10/2008 18:30

Gazundering isn't just about getting a market-rate reduction though, is is? It's about trying to scare the sellers into as huge a reduction as possible by leaving it till the last possible moment to make their demands and hoping everyone is too desperate to say no. That's why it seems such a horrible act to me.

lalaa · 17/10/2008 18:30

I think it's dishonourable to ask for substantially less than you agreed at the outset with very little time before exchange. I wouldn't do it. During less financially turbulent times, I don't recall any seller suddenly saying I'm not accepting your offer, I want more, days (or less) before exchange.

Original poster

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:31

really lalaa .. have you not heard of gazumping then? far more common than gazundering.

OP posts:

Original poster

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:32

and I say again it isn't a unilateral discount .. the vendor has the choice to walk from the offer or force an equivalent discount from their next purchase

OP posts:

McDreamy · 17/10/2008 18:35

DH has always said that if anyone decided to do this to him he would not only refuse but put the original price up! However we've decided to rent our house rather than sell.

Original poster

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:36

yes I like your DH's attitude

OP posts:

lalaa · 17/10/2008 18:38

isn't gazumping when someone takes an offer from another buyer, rather than demanding more for the original?

lalaa · 17/10/2008 18:39

sorry - 'from' the original, i meant

lalaa · 17/10/2008 18:39

and i wouldn't do that either!

Original poster

Twiglett · 17/10/2008 18:40

no the standard is that someone offers more, or they say someone has offered more and they go back to original purchaser to say 'we've been offered this can you match / beat it'

gazumping

OP posts:

KatieDD · 17/10/2008 18:41

Actually I do blame them when they do it on the day of exchange that's out of order.
There are ways of doing business, which I agree this is and gazumping and gazundering should be outlawed.
I want the market to crash back to 2002 prices and believe that will happen but really buyers should be waiting for venders to accept the envitable.
MC's property has dropped by £67k so that means every other flat on her street has now dropped by the same.
The way to play nicely is to wait for asking prices to drop to that level and then offer roughly what the agent suggests, not do business the way these people have.

IotasCat · 17/10/2008 18:43

I blame the system rather than the people who use it to their advantage.
Freckle has the right solution IMHO

lalaa · 17/10/2008 18:44

ok, i stand corrected. still crappy behaviour imo, either way.

2point4kids · 17/10/2008 18:51

Its horrible if it happens to you, of course it is, BUT I totally agree that you cant blame the buyers. Its the market at the moment.
I'm sure in the same situation practically all of us would go for it too. Its easy to say 'no, I wouldnt lower myself' but seriously if you had the choice to buy a house for say 200k or offer 170k due to falling prices and be pretty confident it would be accepted, then you cant honestly say you wouldnt be tempted. Its a hell of a lot of money and is probably the difference to people being able to aford a mortgage or not.

Also, its perfectly acceptable to change your offer once you've done the survey etc. A survey also estimates the property's value too.
If I offered an amount on a property, had the offer accepted and then did all legal work/surveys etc. They survey could come back saying X amount of work needs doing and in current economic climate is valued at X amount. If the amount was significantly lower than my original offer I would be stupid not to withdraw my original offer and put in a reduced one.

McDreamy · 17/10/2008 18:55

No I wouldn't be tempted although I do take your point about the survey. I think I would make it clear that any offer made on a house would be subject to survey. But reducing at the last minute just before the exchange of contracts is low.

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