Arrgh, buggered up application, can I decline my 1st choice?

[aggadoo]

I have been 'successful' in securing a place for my child at my 1st choice school.....I only put it as 1st choice because it's the nearest. However, I have just discovered that the school I really wanted (which I put 2nd because it's slightly further away, very oversubscribed and I was told it was unlikely DC would get in cause of the distance) has announced it will have a 'bulge class' for DC's intake year. He definitely would have got in if I'd put it first. & School apparently did not know they would be adding another class before application forms went in.
Does anyone know if I can apply to go on the waiting list for this school, even though I got my first choice?

You are entitled to apply for any school at any time so yes, you can ask to go on the waiting list for your 2nd choice school. However, the LA may fill the 'bulge' class from the existing waiting list before considering any new applications. You should therefore not decline your 1st choice at this stage.

It is too late now but you should really have made your preferred school your 1st choice. That wouldn't have affected your chances of getting into your local school and when they decided to add the 'bulge' class to your preferred school you would have been on the list.

Ring the LA in the morning and ask to go on the waiting list for your preferred school. They will be able to advise you as to what is happening about the bulge class.

I rang the school today who told me to call the LA but not for about 2 weeks (when the LA get the replies back from parents to confirm their childs place).
So there is no existing waiting list yet... Will this mean that I can apply to go on waiting list for a 2nd choice school and I will be treated the same as anyone else on the waiting list even though I got my 1st choice? if you see what I mean.

Yes you can apply to go on the waiting list and you will be treated the same as anyone else - that's the law.

I would ignore the school's advice and speak to the LA today. Unless it is a faith school the LA sorts out admissions, not the school. The LA will be able to tell you if offers have already been made for the 'bulge' class and, if not, whether you can be added to the waiting list before offers are made.

Thanks prh. Just for information to anyone interested - I called the LA today and been advised to accept my 1st choice and to also request to go on the waiting list for 2nd choice school. This means that I reapply for this school (the LA do it automatically for me) but my position in the waiting list would be below those who put it as their first choice but didn't get in. (in other words, I will not stand a chance!)

So gutted I listened to my head not my heart

If that is what the LA have told you about the waiting list they are wrong. Your position on the waiting list is determined entirely by the admission criteria. They are not allowed to put you lower down the list just because you made this your second choice school. You will absolutely NOT be below all those who put it as first choice. If you are, that is grounds for appeal.

If they said they were going to allocate places to those children already on the waiting list before adding your child, that might be justifiable. However, once you are on the waiting list they have no choice - your position is determined by the admission criteria.

please could I ask what is a 'bulge'class?

Can I ask where you are as this sounds exactly the same as our situation except I haven't heard anything yet!! Hopefuly in tomorrows post!

Busymummy, a bulge class is an extra class typically for one year only. So say a school which typically has 2 classes of 30 pupils for a year suddenly increases to 3 classes in a year for one yeargroup only.

I would suggest a bit of caution around bulge classes as, especially if it is a temporary solution rather than a permanent expansion, it can cause a less than satisfactory experience for those in that bulge year eg there is only so many books for a yeargroup, equally other activities may be more limited so it is harder for pupils in that year to get into a sports team or afterschool club etc. And of course in a temporary situation there is no increase in the size of school hall, or the number of management staff say despite an increased number of pupils. Of course it can be well managed, but just a warning that there may be some teething problems, especially further up in the school as the school may not have the funds to say provide textbooks for a one-off yeargroup.

Just to confirm what PRH has said, the LA cannot allocate places based on whether they were first preference. The method used is called equal preference for exactly that reason, all your three preferences have an equal status.

The LA must allocate to the bulge class on the waiting list for the school which must be in the admission criteria order. I would accept your 1st preference as your backstop and get your name on the waiting list with the LA and see what happens. The LA will have to do this fairly quickly as spaces will potentially come available as parents refuse places at the school from the original allocation and they will have to come off the waiting list. So I would get it done ASAP.

If you do not get allocated a place then ask why not. There is a distinct possibility that the LA will get snowed under with parents having heard the news, so i would not assume that you will get allocated a place. There may be a lot of parents who are nearer to the school than you who put down other preferences for exactly the same reason as you and will all now think they want a place.

In the info gave me it seems that there is a preferential order - they quote that 'offers which could have been made for any schools which you ranked lower were automatically withdrawn because a higher ranked preference has been offered'. (thus having to 're-apply' - perhaps this is what they mean will make me lower down on the list- a bit like applying late or mid-term?)
Also, the bulge class has already been allocated so its a waiting list for an already full year.
I am going to accept my 1st choice and go on the waiting list for 2nd choice school, see what happens, I am not hopeful though!
Thanks again ladies, I will look into this equal preference thing.

So they are just putting you at the bottom of the list as it is at the moment then?

The bit you have quoted is correct. The process involved in admissions is that they sort the applications for each school into priority order according to the admissions criteria. The admission number then determines who will get an offer. Some children at this stage will have places at 2 or more schools so they are only offered the place at their highest preference. So if your DC got places at both your 1st and 2nd preference schools, you would only have been allocated the place at your 1st preference.

This is why you are having to reapply. However, once you have done so your child has to be treated equally with every other child on the waiting list. The LA is not allowed to put you lower down the waiting list just because you have, in effect, applied late. That is specifically prohibited in the School Admissions Code.

It sounds as if the second application is being treated as a late application (which is what our authority do if you change your mind after the allocation date) - so it's not below the other applicants because you put it second (which would be illegal) but because it's a late application (which is OK as long as the admissions policy says that this is what will happen)

No, RustyBear, it is not ok. The School Admissions Code is quite clear on this point. Late applicants must not be unfairly disadvantaged.

But Rustybear the waiting list must be in operation now, there has been an initial allocation and then an allocation for the bulge class. As soon as aggadoo asks to go on the waiting list then she will be put in criteria order defined by the admission arrangements. It will then become a waiting game to see if there are any further declines and hope that they are near the top of the waiting list.
The equal preference scheme works as per PRH's post, but this does not preclude you from changing your mind about schools at any time. You should not need to reapply you can ask to go on the waiting list of any school and it should simply happen. If the LA is suggesting anything else they are wrong and should be challenged about it.

My understanding was that the waiting list, and all on it, are treated exactly as they would be in the general admissions round - ie. in order of meeting criteria.

So, you could be first on the list because of your proximity to the school, be on the list for 6m and then if there is an application from someone who moves into the area 20m closer to the school than you do, they will get the first place that comes up.

You may well get a place: remember that no-one else will have known about the bulge class, either, and often parents to not accpet or confirm offers made to them. Also, other parents who put it 1st choice and didn't get a place, having been offered an alternative may decide not to go on the waiting list for the bulge class. Go on the list and don't despair! Places were coming up in DCs school well into the first week of term to fill places of 'no shows'.

The Admissions code states that a place must not be refused solely because an application was received later than other applicants, but, as far as I can see,that's the only stipulation. Elsewhere it says that an authority's co-ordinated scheme must show how late applications are dealt with, and that late applications must be dealt with in accordance with that scheme. The implication of that is that different treatment of late applications is allowed, but must not be the sole reason for refusing a place.

RustyBear - The Admissions Code says, "Waiting lists must be clear, fair and objective and must not give priority to children based on the date either their application was received or their name was added to the list." (paragraph 3.19 - my emphasis)

The LA is not allowed to treat children on the waiting list differently according to when they applied. My answer to the OP stands - the LA is not allowed to put her child lower down the waiting list because she has applied late whatever it says in their admissions policy.

So why does the code say that LAs must state their policy on late admissions if they are not allowed to have a different policy?

In any case, in the OP's situation we may not be talking about a 'waiting list' under the terms of the code -in our LA they don't establish an official waiting list until the admissions round has finished & it doesn't finish until allocated places have been accepted or refused and replacement places offered, which seems to be an ongoing process in this case.

The code also says that authorities should not allow applicants to change their preferences without good reason,so quoting the code might not actually be advantageous....

From our LA's Admissions leaflet "Any changes to existing applications received after January 22, 2010 will be dealt with as late and considered after the allocation." - presumably it could be argued that 'the allocation' is still ongoing, and therefore places in the bulge class will be offered first to 'non-late' applications.

The school my dd is at has just been told they will have a bulge class this September (you are not in Kent are you?).

A couple of years ago they had half a form expansion for each year with the exception of Reception. This meant they had mixed years.

Because of that some of the parents at the school decided to move to the other school locally rather than stay in mixed years for later years. There were several children going to and fro the school but it soon settled down.

Don't give up, you may still get your place at the school. I know our reception team were great at keeping us informed of what was going on with the waiting lists. And it was purely done on th admissions criteria. It didn't matter when you went on the lost.

RustyBear - The LA must have a policy for late applications. However, that policy cannot include putting the later applications lower on the waiting list.

As places have already been allocated the OP isn't changing her preference so that provision in the Admissions Code is irrelevant. She is applying for a different school. She is entitled to do that at any time. Getting a place at your 1st choice school does not stop you from subsequently applying for a place at any other school, including your 2nd choice.

The OP has been told that the bulge class has already been allocated and that her child will go on the waiting list. So you are correct on that point - non-late applicants have been considered first.

aggadoo - are you in Lewisham? I know there are bulge classes being announced all over the place but also know from first-hand experience that the LA doesn't have an altogether sound understanding of the admissions code!

Good advice here already.

Rejecting your allocated school will not move you up the waiting list for the other school (it's held in order of the admission priorities, as mentioned already) and wouldn't help you win an appeal either.

My LA's policy is just as RustyBear quotes - all late applications will be considered after all on time applications have been considered.
So as I understand it, the waiting list begins after the 'closing date' for acceptance/refusal for offers of places. So my position on the waiting list will be below those who put it as their 1st choice, then after that it will go on the criteria.
Bum!
Why oh why don't they announce that they 'might' be introducing bulge classes for the area, even without naming the schools, it would have given lots of parents like me the option to choose the school they want and not apply in a defeatist way!