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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

what would you do if you knew someone had lied about where they live

45 replies

Feelingsensitive · 24/02/2010 17:25

We are waiting to hear about primary school places. I strongly suspect that one of the parents has used their inlaws address for the application. DH says to take the moral high ground and not do anything even if we dont get a place and we don't. WWYD?

OP posts:

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captainpig · 24/02/2010 18:09

You suspect, but don't actually know. You haven't yet heard about places, and it could be that they don't get a place anyway, or there are enough places for everyone.

Either way, if it were me, I would leave well alone whatever the outcome.

beautifulgirls · 24/02/2010 19:03

Personally I would report them to the education authority regardless of whether or not it affects you. If they have lied and get a place on the basis of this someone elsewhere has lost out.

JackSpratt · 24/02/2010 19:06

report the fucker

if they're legit then they've nothing to worry about

HappyMummyOfOne · 24/02/2010 19:13

I would report too, someone who genuinely lives there may miss out on a place due to fraud and its not right.

If they are legit then they will easily be able to prove it from their council tax bill etc.

MaisietheMorningsideCat · 24/02/2010 19:22

This happened to at DS's school, but it was after the little girl had a place that I found out the parents had used a false address. I actually posted about this on MN ages ago.

When I phoned the education department, I was told that I'd have to put it in writing in order for them to investigate the accusation. I wasn't prepared to, as the family were known to the police, and so the education department couldn't/wouldn't do anything.

It actually came to light anyway because the little girl told her teacher that the Imam at her mosque had beaten her, police were informed and went to her 'home'. By that time, it was felt that she had settled in the school and nothing was to be gained by moving her - which is true, of course, but still makes me mad that the parents just stuck 2 fingers up to the system, and got away with it.

Sorry - I'm babbling

frasersmummy · 24/02/2010 19:30

I didnt think this was possible these days

I had to have birth certificate which showed both parents names and address

I had to have 2 current proof of address with both parents name on it

If you said child stayed with gran and grandad - then you had to have court custody order

I take it not all councils are as strict..

Tortington · 24/02/2010 19:32

i wouldn't say anything

bibbitybobbityhat · 24/02/2010 19:34

No, not all schools take the trouble to make these checks.

I would report someone who cheated, but only if I knew for sure that they had.

frasersmummy · 24/02/2010 19:43

Would it make a difference to your chances of getting in if you reported this person??

If you can guarantee it would then its worth doing but if there are still no guarantees then I would say its not worth reporting

mamsnet · 24/02/2010 19:53

This happens here in Spain ALL the time.. I don't think they ever follow up on this and if they do eventually find out, they don't want to upset the kid and so he/ she is left there.. really gets my goat..
But you wouldn't believe the other cheating scams they get up to here.. makes the above pale in significance..

Original poster

Feelingsensitive · 24/02/2010 20:21

Thanks all. I don't know for sure but I am 99% sure. I understand they ask for utility bills which if they are addressed to Mr and Mrs X, by which I mean without reference to first names, will match the same as the people concerned as its their inlaws. I know we are yet to find out but I am of the feeling that whatever path I take it shouldn't be based on what happens to us. Personally, if I have confirmed my suspicion (and this should be fairly easy to do betwen now and then) I feel I should report them regardless of whether DD gets a place or not. DH says I shouldnt as he feels the system is unfair anyway and what would happen to the child concerned. I was just curious to know what people feel who are not involved and don't know me as I can be rather impulsve about things like this. Thanks.

OP posts:

MaisietheMorningsideCat · 24/02/2010 20:29

I wish I had been braver, and had reported them tbh. Parents who do this continue to get away with it because people are very British about it, and don't like to make a fuss or complain...it's not fair on the other kids who don't get in.

StillCrazyAfterAllTheseYears · 24/02/2010 21:20

Only you (obviously) can decide what to do about this. If you don't want to dob in the people who (you believe) have lied, you could take a different tack. Contact your councillor to say that you don't think the LEA is making adequate checks to ensure that people live where they claim to and ask what they intend to do to prevent fraud.

The only thing I'd argue with is your husband's view that keeping quiet about a fraud which (presumably, if it happens) has deprived a child of a school place to which they're entitled is the "moral high ground". Actually - and sorry to sound so pious - I think it's complicity.

JoTheUnsure · 24/02/2010 21:25

I'd report them - the parents are trying to cheat the system and it's not fair... whether it results in your child getting a place or not.

See if there's any more information you can get (without hiring a PI...).

Best of luck - and keep strong!

PardonMyClench · 24/02/2010 21:31

Not meaning this in a nasty way but why do you feel that it is your responsibility to report them. If the school has a robust mechanism to prevent this they will be found out - if not- then more fool them. Many people are put in difficult positions over school places I can't see myself getting worked up about someone elses deception if, as you say, it is independent of the outcome of your allocation.

StillCrazyAfterAllTheseYears · 24/02/2010 22:22

..... Many people are put in difficult positions over school places .....

So do you really believe that lying and fabricating 'evidence' of address are an acceptable way to deal with that? Yes, the LEA should have a robust means of checking addresses, but saying that people are entitled to cheat is like saying that someone is entitled to steal a car if it's been left unlocked, isn't it?

TheHappyCat · 24/02/2010 22:45

I'm with Clench. I think it's none of your business and nothing like complicity to let other people worry about their own affairs and you worry about yours! I think you are subconsciously letting your worry about not getting a place become a dislike of what you suspect them of doing. If you get a place at the school you want I suspect you will care a whole lot less. Leave them be I say. Would you feel the same if they were applying for a school you had no interest in? I doubt it. If you are wrong, you look a real busybody, and could make for some embarrassing situations at the school gates if it gets out!

BooyhooNOTboohoooORbooyou · 24/02/2010 22:52

i am so glad we dont have the same system here because i know for sure that 70% of the people round here would use every underhand tactic possible to get their child into school and woe betide anyone who reported them.

BaconWheatCrunchies · 24/02/2010 22:57

It would sit very uncomfortably with me if I knew someone or my child didn't get into a school and this child did. But I can also see the 'it's none of your business' line.

Although it is if it's your local school and it affects your community.

I know I wouldn't have the guts to report them. The whole school catchment thing is getting ridiculous. I live in the area where the family was 'under survellience (sorry rubbish spelling)' and know people going to church just got get their child in. But then that's a whole other thread.....

admission · 24/02/2010 22:58

This is as much a decison for you and your beliefs as anything else. If you believe that all should be fair in school admissions then you should report this, if you are completely convinced that they have used a false address.

What will happen is that the LA will investigate (quite quickly) and if they have used the inlaws address then the place will be removed from the pupil concerned. The reason why they move as fast as possible on this is that if the pupil actually starts at the school then the presumption is that they will not be thrown out of the school.

Assuming that the place is withdrawn the next pupil on the admission criteria list will be offered the place. The pupil that has been removed will be offered a place at the nearest school with an available place, which could be anywhere. Interesingly the parents of the pupil removed do have the right to appeal for a place at the original school, though I suspect they will need a remarkably good reason to get a place!

camaleon · 24/02/2010 23:24

What a difficult one to answer! If this is about doing something 'right' or 'wrong', as admission says, you can only follow your beliefs.

If this is related to your own child getting a place, you will have to wait until you know and if this makes any difference. But it would not be an ethical decision anyone can help with.

If you want to know what others would do: well, I would not be doing policing services for the sake of it. So many people do this thing of attending church one year in advance, and you can certainly not report them, can you?

SE13Mummy · 24/02/2010 23:40

I'd be inclined to report it but then I'm someone whose child missed out on a place at a school (where I teach) due to fraudulent behaviour by another parent at another school... the knock-on effect was that child A in 'my' school was eventually offered the place at another local school which had been taken away from child B once the fraud was discovered, court action taken etc. and thus freeing up a place for child C (my child) who had, in the meantime, had to start Reception at yet another local school.

So, two 5-year-olds ended up moving school mid-way through Reception due to fraudulent behaviour by the parent of another child... I've no idea what happened with regard to child B's Reception place in the end. That's 3 families and 3 schools involved and 90 Reception children affected by the arrival/departure of a friend.

So yes, I'd contact the LA and raise my concerns along the lines of, "I believe that family X may have used their in-laws' address on their school application... can you reassure me that the systems you have in place will prevent any places being awarded on the basis of false information?".

sunnydelight · 25/02/2010 04:30

It's a tough one. The lawyer side of me says you should rerport it because it is wrong, illegal, unfair on others who are "doing the right thing" etc. while the (repressed) hippy part of me thinks "what goes round comes round" and thinks they will get their just desserts eventually without you having to put yourself in a difficult situation......

mrspoppins · 25/02/2010 04:44

Stay clear of others' behaviour unless there is actual harm being done to a person or animal...That's my guideline!

SofiaAmes · 25/02/2010 05:00

Make sure you also report all the people pretending to be religious to get their child into a good religious school. England's disgusting biased system for educating our children is why I moved back to the USA where my children aren't discriminated against because they are atheist and have poor parents who live in the wrong neighborhood.

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