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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Contradictions on schools 'holiday in term time' policy.

54 replies

Disenchanted3 · 15/02/2010 17:00

We have a 5 day UK holiday booked and it says on the schools website (you can download policies) that all applications for holidays in termtime must be in writing to the head, attendace is taken into consideration etc...

But on the weekly letter the kid get it says 'we have to follow goverment guidelines and school is unable to authorise holidays taken in term time'

Am worried now!

Does anyone know if the goverment guidelines say 'no' to any application?

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naughtyameliajayne · 15/02/2010 17:03

its not an 'entitlement', its at the school's discretion, gov guidelines do not encourage it, so i think a lot of schools are 'tightening up' as so many parents were taking children out of school, you'll have to speak to the head at the school - and beg!!

LIZS · 15/02/2010 17:07

It is discretionary on the school as to whether to allow or not but may be recorded as an unauthorised absence, always has been so not an entitlement. Ours(independent) officially does not allow it, yet I know of some who get permission and others not

Original poster

Disenchanted3 · 15/02/2010 17:07

I meant that the school had worded is as in the goverment do not allow it so we cannot, rather than we can but its at our discresion.

OP posts:

princessparty · 15/02/2010 17:30

''you'll have to speak to the head at the school - and beg!! ''
No you don't beg !!.You tell them that you are going and then let them sort out the paperwork.I really think some people ( NOT anyone particularly on this thread) need to 'grow a pair' when they are dealing with the school .I don't know anyone IRL who lets the school bully them like some MNers.At our school no-one would really care whether school authorised holiday or not , or would stand for the school telling them what to put in their DCs lunchboxes.

HappyMummyOfOne · 16/02/2010 10:12

Our newletter always warns that term time holidays will not be authorised and that parents can be fined for these holidays - the head will make an exception for a family wedding or funeral though.

Any unauthorised absence shows on the childs report and school records.

Princessparty, what a nice example you must set your children. Hope you feel the same way should they truant when they are older.

mankyscotslass · 16/02/2010 10:17

I think government guidleines are that the heads can grant up to 2 weeks termtime time off in exceptional circumstances. This has always been the case, but over recent years has been relaxed.

Head teachers are now just being reminded that it should be the exception not the rule, that's all.

Kelloggs36 · 16/02/2010 16:04

You do not have the RIGHT to take time off during school term-times, and you (princessparty) are suggesting that the parents have the right to bully the school into what YOU want. Clearly your username says a lot about you - princess attitude of I want so I will have!!

It depends on the school how seriously they will take it - you WILL have to go and ASK (not demand) that the time is authorised, and you take the risk that if it isn't you may be fined.

helenium · 16/02/2010 16:08

I believe that the head of your school will make the decision based on all the facts. If he/she decides that you should not be allowed, then you can take the holiday which will be marked down as unauthorised.

The head decides whether to inform the LA and then you get the fine. £50 per parent .

grenadine · 16/02/2010 16:17

It sounds as though the school's policies are contradictory.

They should have the same policy on the website and the newsletter.

If you have already booked the holiday I would write a grovelly letter to the head saying you checked the website and thought you could apply for a few days holiday but have now seen the newsletter. Ask if she could clarify the schools policy and if she would kindly authorise this holiday as it is already booked.

In future I wouldn't book a holiday until you have the form signed by the head.

There must be different set ups in different LEAs. I have not heard of anyone being fined in my area.

Eddas · 16/02/2010 16:19

I think it depends on the school. We took dd out last year for 3 days (only in reception) and it was authorised no problem. We intend to take her out for a week again this year (now in year 1) but I know they'll get more tight on allowing holidays once she gets into the older years but normally only at SATS times etc.

My SIL/BIL booked a holiday and asked for permission to take my nephews out for a week. Both at same school, one was authorised one wasn't. The eldest was declined because they'd booked the holiday during SATS week and hadn't bothered to check before booking! But they still went on their holiday and didn't receive a fine.

I think they try to scare us into not taking any time off when really you just need to be sensible and check if the time of year is ok to do it. It's not hard, the SATS timetables all come up via websearch and if you really don't know ask the school BEFORE booking the holiday. Simples

MilaMae · 16/02/2010 16:49

I think this subject is unfair.

At our school you get whatever you ask for,at the in laws school they are forbidden from any time off whatsoever.

I think we should all be allowed 10 days by law then you get fined for any more over that. Rich people can holiday when they like, us poorer souls need to holiday in term time.

A max of 10 days holiday isn't going to really effect any child (knowing ex teacher emoticon). Isn't there a campaign somewhere asking for this?

ForestFire · 16/02/2010 16:52

they ahev had parents in court locally

StillCrazyAfterAllTheseYears · 16/02/2010 17:00

OP - It sounds to me as if your school's website is out of date, hence the difference between that and the weekly letter.

In our LEA, there has been a recent crackdown on time off during term time. How much of this has come from the DCFS and how much is the borough's own policy, I'm not sure. Anyway, it's moved from being fairly relaxed about approving one absence a year of up to 10 days (although some schools were more relaxed than others) to turning down all requests except for dire emergencies and compassionate circumstances. Holidays wouldn't now be approved and parents who take their children out of school without prior agreement are liable to a £50 fine.

SleepingLion · 16/02/2010 17:18

I am always surprised by the way parents seem to assume it is perfectly acceptable to pull children out of school when they please for a holiday - as if the thirteen weeks we get a year weren't enough! It seems a poor message to be sending to one's kids: that it is OK to miss school for a holiday. How are you going to handle it when your children are older and truanting because the family attitude is that school isn't that important?

coldtits · 16/02/2010 17:20

It's cheaper to go in term time and pay a £50 fine than it is to go in the school holidays.

princessparty · 16/02/2010 17:22

and even if they did fine you ,you could just recoup the money by refusing to pay for trips,swimming etc

Lulumama · 16/02/2010 17:24

i think there is a massive difference between taking your child out of school for a few dyas a years, for a fanmily holiday and saying turanting is ok

lots of people cannot afford holidays at shcool holiday time or are restricted to the times they can take off

my DS is in year 5 and has had the odd 2 days here and there off authorised by the head. there is a discretionary ten days allowed, but oyu hvae to apply

also if DS has missed school for holiday, i hvae always requested he can take a reading book or any work away that is deemd necessary
so not really saying that shcool is unimportant

PleaseDeleteMeLetmeGo · 16/02/2010 18:40

Disenchanted - the law doesn't say 'no' to any application. It says that the head should only grant in special circumstances. Strictly speaking the head/governors should consider each application individually. In reality most LEAs have a 'no' policy.

The Dcfs says that there should be no blanket approval/reject policy but the Anti-Social Behaviour Act says that Heads should use their discretion to authorise sparingly.

So basically the haed should cast her eyes over your application and will generally say no. It doesn't prevent you from taking your child out of school but it will be unauthorised and if their attendance is poor you could be fined.

bonkerz · 16/02/2010 18:52

we are holidaying in october as it is costing £185 for 7 nights. The same holiday in August would cost us £520.........definately cheaper to pay fine and holiday in term time. When offered with the choice of not having any family time this year or spending 10 very rare days together as a family with no work pressures or school hassles and paying £50 for the priviledge i know what we have chosen.
obviously according to MN im a terrible mother who will allow my children to skive school and who has no respect for education etc etc etc .......

Goblinchild · 16/02/2010 19:01

'and even if they did fine you ,you could just recoup the money by refusing to pay for trips,swimming etc '

Then the trip gets cancelled. How loved your children must be by their peers.

Original poster

Disenchanted3 · 16/02/2010 19:16

Hiya,

I already started a thread on this under another name as I was about it,
but in that thread I said that the only child I have in school is only 5 and has 100% attendance up to now as all but one or two of the replies said I should just go and enjoy ourselves.

I do not plan on doing this every yera, he is 5 not doing his GCSEs so I feel it is OK this time, I will get extra homework sheets from his teacher and we do alot of extras with him anyways so I know he wont miss out.

OP posts:

Original poster

Disenchanted3 · 16/02/2010 19:18

Oh and I don't think the website is out of date because its a brand new one, their old one was really bad and had no info at all not even holiday dates but now its super and has all policies on there so I assumethey must be upto date if they have only been added in the last month?

OP posts:

missmapp · 16/02/2010 19:27

The school is only becoming stricter with authorising absences because they are judged by their unauthorised absence figures, these all link into ofsted and other judgments. Normally, if you are normally good attenders, the school will allow days off, but it is certainly becoming harder!!

PleaseDeleteMeLetmeGo · 16/02/2010 19:33

Maybe not out of date but not within dcfs guidelines which say no blanket approval or refusal policy. Headteachers are required to judge each case individually.

Ripeberry · 16/02/2010 19:36

It all depends where you are going. If it's a once in a lifetime trip then most schools will allow it AS long as the child writes a diary and takes photos and shows the rest of the school when they get back.
We had to take my then 6yr old out of school for 10 days (overlaped a half-term).
But with some holidays costing thousands for a familly, they would take the fine and the bad mark if it saves them lots of money in the end.
They try and scare you with the trouble wou'll get into if your child does not turn up, but my neighbours kids have lots of 'duvet days' just because they can't be bothered to catch the school bus and they are doing their exams later this year.

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