Contradictions on schools 'holiday in term time' policy.

[Disenchanted3]

We have a 5 day UK holiday booked and it says on the schools website (you can download policies) that all applications for holidays in termtime must be in writing to the head, attendace is taken into consideration etc...

But on the weekly letter the kid get it says 'we have to follow goverment guidelines and school is unable to authorise holidays taken in term time'

Am worried now!

Does anyone know if the goverment guidelines say 'no' to any application?

[lilac21]

Teachers are not obliged to provide work for children who are away due to holidays or illness or anything else. At best, you may get an extra reading book or two if you ask for it.

I too, would love to be able to take holidays when it's cheaper, or have a long weekend when I fancy one, as I did in my previous occupation. However, I weigh that up against rarely having to pay for holiday childcare and spending every school holiday with my own children, a privilege few working parents get.

[Kelloggs36]

How would you feel if the teachers decided to take their holidays off in term time????? Teachers are just as likely to be strapped for cash as anybody else (we certainly are not paid a fortune!) I could try that excuse but would be told to save for a longer period of time so that I could go on holiday. A holiday is a choice, it is not essential - I went for many years without a holiday because I couldn't afford one. If you can't afford it, don't go this year, wait until next year when you will have had twice as long to save.

[onebadbaby]

I am a primary teacher, and from experience I believe the gains to be had from a family holiday far outweigh the detriment of a week off school. They will have the chance to experience other cultures, maybe visit museums, get physical exercise eg swimming, have quality time with family and siblings, make new friends, and have HAVE FUN! They will not need extra tuition on return if they are 'normal' children who usually attend regularly. They soon catch up what is learned in a week as the primary aged curriculum is constantly revisited and reinforced. There is plenty of time for rigid rules about holidays when they start work. Take advantage of the flexibility of life while you still can. I can't believe these schools are so rigid- none of the heads I have worked for have made a fuss or fined parents for taking kids on holiday...?? The frequent absentees are the real concern for schools..those are the children that fall behind...

[Rockbird]

I don't have a school age child yet. I do however have a school age niece who is missing two close family weddings in Ireland because her mother is too frightened to ask for one weekday off each time. Niece is 7yo and would love to go to these events. Family would love to see her but realistically couldn't plan the weddings around the school term of a child in a different country. That situation to me, is utterly ridiculous.

[redskyatnight]

I agree with naughtyameliajane. I couldn't give 2 hoots about anyone else's child and whether they fall behind during the 5-10 days they are away. But I do care when the teacher/staff resources have to be diverted to helping them catch up when they get back again.

I'm also shocked how many people book their holiday and then tell the headteacher they are going - all workplaces expect employees to request holiday in advance, why does this rule not apply to schools also?

[Prinnie]

God it makes me sick the thought that a primary schools take this so seriously. Honestly, if a child's not behind and otherwise has good attendance what right has the state to interferre? Grrrr. I completely understand that authorisation should be requested - that's fine, but to refuse a 5/6/7 year old a week off school?! All because of stupid OFSTED?! It makes me come over all Daily Mail!

[Lulumama]

I have taken mine out for the odd day, i think DD who is reception missed one day due to a family wedding that was over a sunday/monday.. it was my brohter'swedding, so not a chance of missing it !!

DS has been out of school for a maximum of 3 days IIRC, i would do all i could to avoid them missing a week or two weeks of shcool, especially as they get higher up the school

[naughtyameliajayne]

i think a problem with taking children out during school time is not just what that individual child might miss in school - and i have no doubt that for many children a week or 2 of quality time with family is of more benefit that 2 weeks in school when just those two weeks are considered - but it is the 'knock on' effect - that child is then a week or 2 behind with a topic etc, that does have an impact on the teacher and the class when they return, and also if a few children in the class do it then it is extremely difficult for the teachers to keep everyone on track. i also do believe there are 'social' consequences for the children - friendship groups change etc. i think most schools are keen to discourage it. in this case there was obviously a discrepancy between school website and newsletter and i would imagoine the head will be sympathetic.

[GrungeBlobPrimpants]

Erm, you call that control freakery, TeflonMum? She's more easy going than some.

Rules for schools are that up to 10 days allowed at heads discretion. Note the world 'discretion'. It is not a right. It is up to the parent to apply and make a case before booking a holiday.

I don't call (1) being polite and (2) following the rules for application being arse licking . In fact I'd say they are good lessons for getting anything in life. However, the arrogance of your response I think clearly demonstrates why heads get totally pissed off. It's not the actual taking time out - it's the attitude that's the problem.

[TeflonMum]

Your DC's head is a control freak, then@ Grunge.

You shouldn't have to plead lick-arsingly to the Head in order to take your own child on the occasional term-time holiday.

If people take the piss and aren't respecting the fact that children are legally obliged to attend school and should be doing so regularly and punctually, then fine - the Head has every right to get arsey about it.

But it should be 'innocent until proven guilty', in my opinion.

I don't see why I should have to ask anyone if I want to take my child out of school occasionally. And I don't. We were away for the first week of the Spring term and I simply wrote a brief and polite letter informing the Head of the dates we would be away. I know full well what the policy is. I also know full well - as does the Head - that this is all about protecting attendance results in the league table and that actually, my primary age child taking a week out to see his family in a foreign country isn't going to harm him or the school community in any way. To argue otherwise is preposterous.

[BooToYouToo]

I am wondering if schools are having to be stricter this year due to school closures for snow. Our infants school was open but as there were so few staff they encouraged anyone not working that day or SAHM to leave their kids at home. Does anyone in education know if such children were counted as absent? In which case they will clamp down on holidays in term time to bring their attendences back up.

[GrungeBlobPrimpants]

Well, I recall my dc's head putting it this way:

If asked nicely - we would very much like to take out dc(s) for x amount of time, this is because of y circumstance and unique opportunity, in context of good attendance etc etc, very happy to discuss further PLEASE, she is usually happy to grant request

However if told - not asked - We have already booked this, we will be taking dcs out so there, we know what's best SO THERE, then not surprisingly it puts her back up and she refuses such requests. Particularly when it is the same people term after term.

[MilaMae]

Exactly how I see it Eddas won't be taking them out when they've got exams as it wouldn't be in their best interest.

My kids are 6,6 and 5.

I follow all school rules:-uniform,I'm one of the only parents that hears my kids read every single night,we're never late and homework is always handed in on time. My kids also don't have a day off just for a runny nose which I know from teaching experience a vast number of children do.

Have a great time Disenchanted

[CaurnieBred]

When we took DD (5) out in Janury, the response from the school was that we can't give you permission, but have a good time. DDs attendance the previous term was 100% so they know that we are not taking the mickey. Each case will be (should be!?) judged on an individual basis. I think it is a case of when there are frequent absences/patters of absence that the school will take a much harder line and think about reporting you to the LEA.

[Disenchanted3]

I agree Eddas,

I'm going to write to the Head, if he refuses to authorise we will still go, its paid for now and he knows about it.

Its not something we plan to do as he gets older but this is the way its panned out this year and he is 5! Not 15.

I don't see why we shouldn't be granted it as hes never had a willynilly day off and works really hard with his school work and homework.

I'm sure his teacher won't mind, we will ask for extra shhets to do.

[Eddas]

sleeping the my child my rules was a bit tngue in cheek, I am obviously aware that I cannot control everything and teat schools have rules, which is why dd attends every day, wears the uniform as per their list(not like others who ignore the required coloured coats, trainers instead of shoes etc etc) She will not miss any exmas when she's older because I can't be bothered to check when they are and take her on holiday instead, but at 5(6 when we go away) I hardly think it's crime of the century to remove her from school for a week. I get fed up with the do-gooders on here who say nope no taking out of school as a blanket response to the arguement. IMO it's individual, if you want to take a 5 year old away it's totally different to a 10 year old. So atm it is my child my rules. When she is older the rules will change to take into account the school/exams/life. In no way did I say I don't respect the schools rules. I do. I always have. My own attendance at school was brilliant. I never bunked off, always attend my exams and did my homework. Hopefully my dc will be the same as I shall teach them that school is important and they set the rules and they should follow them.

ANd FYI my children are not prescious offspring, but they are my children and I will decide what's best for them. Nothing wrong with that.

[MilaMae]

Our school authorised our week off.

I'm suspecting they don't have an absence problem and most parents are probably like myself ensuring their dc have v good attendance so a week off is not actually a problem.

This a common sense approach. Far better to tackle consistent truancy instead of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut so to speak.

I really don't see the problem with giving parents 10 or even 5 days a year as a legal right across the board. Then focus on penalizing the parents who take their kids out willy nilly for things like bdays and shopping trips.

[cornsilk]

I have taken mine during term for a few days to centerparcs in the past - wouldn't book now unless I'd okayed it with the school first though.

[emy72]

,,,but everyone's circumstances are different. All my family are abroad and not only the kids are very close to them/miss them like mad, but also all family events are abroad and don't happen to slot nicely in school holidays.

Also, flights only go 3 days a week so often I will have to take them out of school at least one day because of flight logistics.

I try my best not to miss school days, but maintaining that bond with the family is very important to us and I would rather take a fine if it comes to it, although so far the school have been fab about it.

[cornsilk]

The new ofsted framework which came into effect from September 2009 lists attendance as part of the 7 main judgements of pupil outcomes which schools will be judged against. I would expect that schools will become stricter about unauthorised absence in response to this. So 'my child my rules' won't cut it.

[onebadbaby]

I don't really understand how the government justifies fining parents for taking a few days out for a holiday, yet my friend has pulled her DS out of school permanently on the basis of "home educating" him. Under this loose description she is basically allowed to do whatever she likes with him, there are minimal checks from the LEA and trips to museums, playgyms (for PE???) and shopping all count as part of his education. Holidays in term time should in my view be discouraged and kept to a minimum, but at the end of the day it should be up to parents.

[SleepingLion]

PYSL at what, MilaMae? The unthinkable prospect that their might be other people in the world who are able to make rules which affect your child?

God, the egocentricity of some people is breath-taking. But yes, God forbid that anyone should interfere with the unalienable human right to take one's child on a cheap holiday.

[helenium]

I have done it and quite a few times, even with the older ones. What I bear in mind is, I do not expect the school to go over any work missed. I would not blame them if my child got behind in something which was studied whilst they were away.

It is my responsibility if I decide to take them out of school, but also my responsibility to ensure that any work missed out is caught up by ourselves.

Saying that, I have not yet had any of mine saying they were behind with anything due to having a few days hols during term time.

[Melissa28]

I think this is a difficult one. A few years ago when the children were in infants we did take them out as you could take up to 10 days. Then the rules changed so that any holiday was unauthorised. Now they are in Secondary and Year 6 I wouldn't do it anyway. If either of my children fell behind with their school work I would be quite embarrassed talking to their teacher about it knowing I had taken them out of school.

[MilaMae]

That's ridiculous Sleeping. PMSL

I'm with Eddas on this and absolutely no school is going to get rid of kids because their parents have paid a fine and taken a weeks holiday. It's hard enough to get rid of a child persistently bullying or truanting.

Up until recently everybody was perfectly at liberty to take their kids out now thanks to a selfish few we're all being punished.

Kids need life experiences out of school,kids from poorer families should not have to miss out also things happen life doesn't always slot nicely into school holidays.