Any governors out there?

[debs40]

Hi

I've decided to move my son from his current school after a discussion with the new Head teacher about a variety of policy issues.

The new Head was very difficult to deal with and during the meeting she, rather inappropriately I felt, raised some very minor issues about my son (e.g. she showed me some books he had chewed and told me she had seen him playing alone in the playground 'aggressively'). These concerns were not placed in any context.

I have very discreetly and politely withdrawn my son from Friday this week but I would like to raise my concerns about the way the head dealt with this and I wondered what the best way is for me to do that. Is it by a letter to the governors?

Thnaks

Yes, the Governors are responsible for the "Performance Management" of the Head, so a letter to the Chair of Govs would be the next logical step.

Get hold of the school's complaints/grievance policy and follow it scrupulously. For a complaint against the Head, the next step probably is a letter to the Governors, but you need to follow the agreed policy at the school; your complaint may be delayed or referred back if you don't.

You also need to be clear about what you're complaining about - the school policies which you don't support or the Head's comments about your child. If you were talking about your child's experience at school, it's not clear to me why the Head shouldn't have mentioned her concerns about his behaviour: were they really not relevant to the discussion?

Thanks for this. I would like to challenge her response to both.

On the second matter, I was raising concerns about my son coming home on two separate occasions with grazes after being hit by another child. On both occasions he has been treated by staff but I had not been told.

The second occasion, happened after I had been told by his teacher that they would look out for and report any future incidents.

The Head said she had gone to watch both boys and said 'your son plays on his own alot...quite aggressively..is he always like that?' I explained the way I thought he played

She asked whether he was happy at school and I said yes. She then said 'I'm glad you say that because I have these ..' and showed me some pencils and books he had chewed.

Is that related to what I was talking about? Am I wasting my time with this? I can tell that you are not going to gte far with a Head like this which is why we are moving but I feel I should make my concerns known.

Of course you should make your concerns known, especially if you've reached the point of withdrawing your child from the school.

Schools don't (I think) always tell parents about every small injury - partly because some parents will then harangue the parents of the other child in the playground. Schools prefer to be told of these sorts of issues between children so that they can deal with it.

Only you (of course) can judge the conversation you had with the Head and I can't second guess what she was trying to say. But I wonder whether, rightly or wrongly, she was trying to suggest that your son is not completely happy at school - many children chew pencils but I haven't heard before of a child of school age chewing books. Is your son anxious about school? Likewise, was she trying to suggest that he finds friendships difficult and the fights may have been 'six of one and half a dozen of the other'? Of course, that isn't to excuse the injury to your child.

I really do know how hard it can be, to be objective about one's own child. You should certainly raise these issues with the school if you are still dissatisfied, but try to be calm and to listen to what the school has to say.

Have you found a place for your son in another school? Or will you be home educating him until you do?

do you think she was fishing for evidence of sn?
how old is ds?
i would stick to the policy issues in your initial communication with the governors, but it may be sensible to ask if you could arrange a meeting with a representative from the governing body.

SN?!This is what worries me. You tell anyone what she has said and they'll say the Head thinks he's got problems.

She'd been there two weeks when we met. He had to be pointed out to her in the playground. She watched him for ten minutes.

My son is 5. A completely normal bright child that no one has passed comment on like this before.

He has just started Year 1. it is a massive infant school of 250 pupils.

I raise a few 'whole school' issues. Head comes back with all this without having spoken to his class teacher of this year or last.

Interestingly, she agreed I should have been told about the injuries. The incidents in which they occured were not 'playfights'

My son has a very close friend with whom he has tea twice a week. They sit together in class and play together at play time. He does not find friendships difficult.

I've thought about this. But if she had genuine concerns about him why raise them like this in this way. Throwing them out like suggestions without conclusions.

He's always chewing on stuff. From friends who have boys I understand it's not unheard of. The school nurse certainly didn't see it as a problem.

I try and look for an out. I really want to believe she was not being totally unprofessional but I can't avoid that conclusion and it disgusts me frankly

ok - i would try not to let it get too emotive though - i know it's difficult as it's your child etc, but there is a better chance of a sensible outcome for all sides (including the pupils remaining at the school) if you can detach yourself a bit in the discussions. I've not heard of a yr 1 child chewing books in class tbh, but i'm no expert - if the school claim it is unusual however, i would tend to believe them. the only yr 1 children that i have known to chew books are indeed those with some form of sn (and i'm not talking asd, which is the conclusion you have jumped to because of the 'friends/ playing alone issue - i'm thinking more along sensory lines) i've certainly never had a reading book home that has been even slightly teethed tbh! most 5 year old boys play power rangers etc in the playground, so i would just let that element go if you have no other concerns.
stick with the policies and you can't go far wrong. a meeting with the governing body will clear the air, and would be a good note to leave on if you are removing him anyway.
if i was a teacher and suspected sn (but wasn't sure) btw, i would fish for clues from parents, particularly those who do not believe their child has any issues - it's less confrontational than calling mrs x in and saying 'do you think x has syndrome y?' - usually a whole shock for all concerned, particularly if it laters turns out to be false - it's very upsetting for parents. if the parent reassures the teacher that all other behaviours are normal, then the slightly out of kilter behaviour can usually be chalked up to a little personal oddity, or evidence of something else - lack of confidence, bullying, whatever... not suggesting that is happening here, but just giving you an idea of why she might have been 'suggesting without concluding'. perhaps she was trying to find out how to help?
far from behaving unprofessionally, i suspect she was raising her concerns as an educator to see if there were any issues she should be aware of (particularly as she is new and does not know him well). it would have been extremely unprofessional of her either to diagnose an additional need without finding out if there were any parental concerns, or ignoring what she felt were valid indicators of something not quite right with a yr 1 child.
i don't actually find her unprofessional on the face of it, but as she has upset you, there is obviously an issue that needs resolving.
as a parent of both extremely able NT dcs, and an extremely able sn child, and a school governor, i see the need for communication channels to be extremely open, in an atmosphere that allows both sides to raise their concerns with each other.
if you disagree with the policies of the school you have placed your child in, you are of course free to discuss and remove your child if you believe it is appropriate. i'm not sure what policies concern you, though, so i can't really comment on that. it is essential that teachers and heads can raise concerns about children with parents though, so i would be really careful how you phrase your criticisms in this regard. i hope your discussions with the governing body put your mind at ease.

Thanks that is really helpful.

I can see what you say. I haven't jumped to any conclusion though about a particular SN . I wouldn't really have a clue what one would be implied by a child chewing at things or any other sort of behaviour she mentioned. No claim was made about it to me. I was just presented with the items for comment.

If she was fishing for clues as an educator than she has only succeeded in worrying us (and me to the point of panic) about our son and this cannot be good. Why not talk to the staff who know him well if concerned and tell me this and then explain to me why she was asking?

I'm an intelligent parent. I would have appreciated what she was doing and understood it. I responded to everything she said politely and constructively without any sign of defensiveness. If she was trying to satisfy herself that nothing was wrong, she could have told me this.

But she didn't do this and I cannot see this is good practice.

I am a lawyer. I would not write to the governing body in the way I write her. I can see the need for detachment. The issue is emotive only because of the way this has been dealt with and not the contents of the discussion.

However, I did write to her after the meeting to address the concerns she raised and to say that she had worried me about my son.

She didn't even respond.I can see nothing to demonstrate genuine concern but of course I would not put it that way to the governors

I can see I will get nowhere raising this as she will clearly present it in the guise you have set out. I find that extemely distressing but that is ultimately why we are moving him.

Thank you so much for your comments. If I do write a letter they will really help me focus on the way I should raise my concern.

sorry if i sounded as though i was toeing the party line lol - do you know if she had spoken to his teacher? it would seem a little strange if she hadn't? is she also the SENCo?
writing these things is always a juggling act, good luck x
hope he settles well in his new school x

Romy has just said all that I was going to say.

I am sure it was not at all what the OP intended, but the posts do sound defensive and unwilling even to think about things from another perspective. Maybe the HT is barking up the wrong tree but, even if she doesn't know the child well, she is an experienced educator and the issues she's raising (or hinting at) deserve serious thought. The complaint needs to be carefully worded and, if there is a meeting with the governors, it needs to be conducted calmly.

Thanks. I'm sorry if they sounded defensive.

It is really helpful to have an outside perspective on this. it is what I was looking for.

She is the SENco but I understand she hadn't spoken to his teachers.

I suppose for me, it came out of the blue and on the back of a discussion about the teaching of RE so it was a surprise.

Of course as a parent, you are sensitive to these issues, and I was alarmed that my son's behaviour seemed to be being pathologised by someone who didn't know him.

I responded very constructively with her and did not dismiss what she was saying.

I just wasn't sure what she was saying or what I was supposed to take it from it as it was all put out there but left hanging in the air without conclusion.

This has made me think through the whole process though. I think it is a communication issue. If a professional has concerns like this , why not just explain why they are being raised and why not respond when a mother acknowledges them and indicates how seriously she has taken them?

I should say that by the end of the discussion she seemed happy that he didn't have a problem but I felt pretty devastated that this should all have been wrapped up in one meeting without introduction or explanation as to why she was saying what she did

maybe you took her by surprise a little? HTs are human, after all - and you had obviously been planning the discussion about RE, so were prepared?
as for leaving the subject hanging - she probably wanted to go away and discuss with the class teacher, (particularly as she then received a letter from you with regard to the meeting), so is taking her time to construct a proper reply which will alleviate concern? i don;t know when this took place, obviously. maybe she has been out of school for a day or two? sn is such a difficult area, and often takes months and months before schools decide to bring in an ed psych for an assessment, or ask parents to refer to paed etc, so many many parents are left dangling for months with a feeling that something may be not quite right. it's not something that can be rushed. i know as parents we want to know if x has a problem, what it is, and what we can do to fix it immediately, but unfortunately sn is just not like that. would it be possible for you to suggest a meeting with both her and the class teacher just to put your mind at rest? if they are concerned that there may be something slightly different, then you will want to know so that you can discuss with the new school. it would be a shame for them to take a few months to get to know him and put any issues down to the school move, if it does turn out in the future that he has some additional sensory needs for example..
really hope it all goes well.

sorry - x post!

Thanks. I appreciate this. I am not saying this to be defensive but there is no suggestion as far as I am aware that my son has a problem.

As I say, the Head told me she was quite happy that my son does not have any problems by the end of the meeting and was not planning any follow up.

We have spoken since and she has not raised any issues

If she was planning to, then again, I think it is a communication point. Perhaps, it would have been wise to explain this to me.

You can't float these things past parents just to reassure themselves about something and then expect parents not to worry

As for the other issues, RE etc, I sent her an email detailing precisely what i wished to discuss.

I think she is just an ineffective communicator.

Do you think I should ask her directly whether what she was asking about hints at her believing there to be a problem with my son?

Do you think I should ask her directly whether what she was asking about hints at her believing there to be a problem with my son?

I think that would risk putting her on the defensive. I would phrase the questions slightly differently. Perhaps something along the lines of 'You mentioned that my son plays on his own and/or aggressively and has chewed some books. Has his behaviour caused any difficulties in school? Is there a problem here? How can I support him?' That might flush out whether there is any credible evidence of a problem - what the head believes is immaterial if there is no evidence to back it up.

Thank you folks so much. You have helped more than you can know!!

I really appreciate your kindness and time.

You are a complete superstar! Thanks to both of you x

Have just re-read the thread and noticed that you are a lawyer. I'm sure you don't need any help in constructing a telling forensic argument!

I needed your help on this I can tell you!!

Well, either way, you're welcome.

That was probably me as I asked them to delete posts which ahd inadvertently mentioned my son's name - although they have left my post there!

No worries - I had assumed it was a non-de-MN and not his real one. Great name, though!