Streaming in junior school sports - DD devastated

[Meforthree]

How do people feel about streaming for sports in primary school? My kids are at an independent junior school. My 8-year-old DE has been doing hockey for several years outside school with many of her friends and also does the extra school’s hockey club. Today she found out she has been put in a different group from all her friends she plays hockey with - we all know it’s the “weaker” group, whatever word salad the school gives back if you ask them about their streaming… my DD isn’t one of the top athlete but if there are different hockey abilities I also know they’re marginal - they also streamed for the external hockey club and the girls (ie DD and her friends) are all in the same group.

Dd is devastated, particularly given that something very similar happened in swimming this year (they actually have
SIX groups in swimming, and she is the second one, so she’s still pretty good but not in the squad or with her friends).

A friend of mine with super sporty kid in an older year also said she felt they always pick her son for stuff he’s not even that good at because their way is basically to decide who the sporty kids re across the board and then just kind of give them everything so it really isn’t just me being a whinger cause my kid didn’t get picked for a team!

I’m not trying to make the school treat DD as a top athlete but if there’s only a marginal difference in skills (if that!) isn’t it more important to encourage enjoyment and reward commitment? There’s so much about girls losing sport in their teens and I just worry that’s what’s going to happen here as DD’s self esteem and enthusiasm is eroded…

It sounds like a pretty foul school culture, far too pressurised, and not something I’d want my 8yo involved in.

Genuine question - would you be just as unhappy about the streaming if they had put your dd in the top group?

Different schools have different cultures. Some focus more on inclusivity. Some focus more on performance. It seems that you have chosen a school which focuses heavily on performance. Inevitably, there will be consequences to that approach and not every child can be in the top stream.

Independent schools are notorious for dog eat dog culture. You need to get down there and complain, otherwise this’ll keep happening.

This is standard in private schools; A team, B team and C team for
each sport. Fixtures from Y3 in these teams too. Also sports day prizes for first, second and third only. They’re put in teams of ability, the idea isn’t to be stuck with their friends.

Well eg the streaming hasn’t bothered me with my DS as he’s not sporty but also not especially committed to any sports. So it’s not like I’m getting uppity over the streaming all the time, it’s just the first time is has felt unfair to me, but not because I necessarily want her to be in the top group for no reason. It’s the lack of transparency over how and whom they’re picking that I hate (as i say above, there seems to be some suggestion even from people are good at all sports, that they just categorise them really early and they kind of stick to it), as well as the ignoring of massive commitment and enthusiasm whe the skills difference is marginal. We’re not talking about selecting for county sports (or even the school squad) here!

Do the groups make any difference? Like do they train and play separately?

Our state school does it too. It is not just a private school thing. It makes the groups easier to teach if they are of similar ability.

yes it seems this is the system (although fwiw these aren’t the teams - it’s the groups they learn sport in) but I don’t think they’re selecting very carefully. And I’m also objecting to the system to be honest - I think they’re too young, and that they should take into account enthusiasm and commitment - is it really worth having an ever so slightly better shot of winning next week’s school fixture (although I’m not sure that’s even the case when they’re selecting so randomly and untransparently) when the downside is ruining girls’ love of the sport?

different in senior schools maybe, and definitely different in an intentionally competitive external environment, but I really feel like school sports should be trying to nurture a lifelong love of sport!

Yes, where there are clear differences I get that and am not necessarily against it (where the benefits are actualy being able to play against people of a similar ability (eg this worked well for my son, who has actually had a shot at enjoying football because he’s not being pitched against the football obsessives).

But my point is partly that that isn’t the case here. She has been judged to be of a similar ability in her external club, so if there are differences they are very marginal

I actually think streaming is more likely to keep kids in sport because they're not getting huffed at by the wannabe internationals and can play a game with other kids at their level and not spend most of the lesson on the bench. The teachers can teach the skills they need to learn to get better. DS used to be quite crap at hockey as we moved from a country where hockey isnt a thing- he was in the C's at prep school , actually learned how to play, and now he's in Year 10 and in the A squad, although actually preferred the B's because he got more pitch time and more glory.

I also went through this with DD- she was always "best of the B's" in every sport in prep school and it did sting a bit as her friends were mainly in the A's, but at the same time, they have to cut it somewhere. She is now a county hockey player and some of the kids that were in the A's are now in the B's as they just didnt progress to the same extent as they got older. It's fluid.

I was terrible in sports at school, picked last for everything, scared of the hockey ball etc. One term in sixth form most of the sporty girls had chosen a different sport and hockey was actually fun for a change - I even got to try out some skills in a match. It was really one of the very few times I remember shining in PE. (Quite depressing to only remember a handful over 7 years.)

The following week the sporty girls decided to come to our hockey sessions and they ran rings around me - completely humiliating.

I wish we’d had streaming in PE for weaker kids like me. I would have enjoyed sport a lot more. I was in a private school too.

Have you seen the other girls in the group she's in though because unless she's way way better than all of them (in which case likely to be identified quickly) it may just be that it's a strong year and the differences between the bottom of group 1 and top of group 2 will be marginal. Also might be position related- girls teams nearly always short of defenders so sometimes an A team defender is objectively not as good as a B team midfield/ forward.

That’s interesting! Well done to both of yours!
I’ve mentioned this above - I actually agree that it can sometimes work well - this was the case for my son who gets a shot at playing sports ages not usually good at - he’ll often come home excited about scoring in
a football fixture etc that he’d never be good at it if it wasn’t streamed.

But it feels different for DD, like they’re just not able to see beyond the assumptions they made already. I’m just not sure they need to draw the line in that way for this (these aren’t the teams, just the groups they learn in, so they don’t have fixed numbers). And regardless of how we’d like to see it, it has definitely damaged her self confidence.

That’s the thing, it’s not teams so it’s not positions. It’s just the days/groups they learn in.

Yes exactly this. I have zero issue with it. Firstly because that’s life isn’t it, you can’t be good at everything, and surely it’s loads better to be on a C team being taught at your ability and playing other C teams than being mixed up ability and feeling like a let down/the worst on the pitch. DD is a real mix- D team netball, B occasionally A team hockey and always medal position for sprinting.

But the make up of her external club will be different meaning the top 15 or whatever will be different. She may in the top 15 at her club but number 20 at school which puts her in the lower group.

I do feel for your DD, it is horrid when your friends are in a different group - especially if that is the higher achieving group. However, if you have sets or streams for PE or any other subject sometimes this will happen. The school gets to decide how they organise groupings and there will be a cut-off somewhere. It does seem a young for it, but competitive sport and ability groupings are part of this school's culture. Unless you are going to move, which seems drastic, you need to encourage your DD to keep trying hard, enjoy playing and emphasise the groups may change in the future. She can still enjoy hockey in and out of school.
At DD's primary they didnt stream for PE, but teams were picked purely on ability. They were mainly 'mixed' teams so you can imagine how that turned out. Not great for encouraging girls sport .

The thing with sports is that if you don't stream, the same kids win everything. At least with streaming they are competing at their own level.

So I do get where you're coming from and I'm definitely not pretending that prep school sport is perfect (there can be a lot of kids trading on former talent and/or an assumption that a kid who's good at one sport is good at another) but I would let it play out for a bit and get her feedback on the standard in this group. If she's head and shoulders above to the extent she's not learning anything then maybe take it up with the school but if it's marginal then I'd position it to her in positive terms - i.e something to aim for.

most of the preps I know of do this.

it’s actually quite common at state secondary as well now.

I think in o

I think in other circumstances this would be good advice but maybe what’s really key that I didn’t get across properly in my original post was that unfortunately it really feels like the school culture doesn’t really allow for something to work for. People seem to be kind of picked and then that’s it forever. We’ve seen it play out like that lots of times (including in some ways that have benefited us!) and with other kids too - but it just feels like there’s a climate where kids are boxed in really early and then they feel they can’t really work to be seen differently

The numbers in each group must have some relevance though… they couldn’t for example have one group of 20 together and one group of 10 due to logistics etc.
Mine are at independent schools and if they’ve ever been put in a sports group that they weren’t happy with I’ve made light of it and told them it’s an incentive to try extra hard in their practice. My 11 year old has just, after over a year of trying, been moved to the top group (and the A team) in hockey.
They have to split the groups somehow, and your daughter just happens to have fallen slightly below the cut off line. Sport is also about resilience, and there’s no reason she can’t enjoy being in that group as much as she’d enjoy being in the other. It will give her a chance to develop new friendships too.

I think this is standard for private schools that are marketed based on what their pupils achieve. If you choose such a school, this is the downside.

Dds state primary was exclusively about inclusion. ‘Who wants to play in the netball match, hands up.’ 15 hands up. ‘Fine, I’ll tell the other school we’re bringing two teams.’ And that was that.

It sounds like you were ok when it worked in your child’s favour, it’s only that your DD is upset that you’re bothered now. Thems the breaks I’m afraid, the same tide rises and falls for everyone.