I regret primary school choice, what should I do?

[BoyMum100]

So a bit of background, we had a big cross country house move last year. We found a house in a lovely town with a large primary around the corner. On paper it's a good school with new facilities. We enrolled my son into the on site preschool without viewing it due to distance. A few months after starting pre school I wasn't sure about the school, it's busy, large and inpersonal. It's very results driven and lacks a community feel, which is important to me as we don't know many people here. I viewed other smaller schools that were a drive away and preferred them. However, my DH and family both said a school within walking distance would be a no brainer, so I reluctantly put it down as my first choice, but never felt easy about the decision.

My child went from being quite outgoing to shy and didn't make many friends in pre school, wasn't invited to any parties although has done well, didn't love it but didn't hate it either.

Reception started a couple of weeks ago and I still feel the same. After speaking to another mum raving about a how good a small village school was, I enquired to see if they have any places and they do and have invited me to view it.

Sorry for the waffle but am I crazy to move a child who has just started Reception from a good on paper oversubscribed school?

There are pros and cons. I went to a faith school with only 15 children in my year only 4 of which were girls. This massively limited the "friends" I made and secondary by comparison was overwhelming with 8 forms. As a result I chose a 3 form entry primary for my own children.

Again, my primary school wasn't the closest school so we had no one to walk with and everyone lived a distance away because it was a faith school. That meant local children in my street who attended the school a 2 minute walk away didn't really know us and although they were not unfriendly, they were not welcoming either.

Results driven school just means that they understand how schools are measured and gives children the best start before they move up to secondary. Community is usually built from parents doing drop off and pick up, whole class parties and attending assemblies. There are playdates to arrange, you can just walk back with children. Ask your child's teacher who they play with. Half the time children cannot remember anything they have done that day. Talk to parents.

I don't think I would pull him yet. The school that is a drive away means parents who usually walk their child to and from school may be reluctant for a parent they do not know to have their child in the car and drive them to your house. Plus you are then possibly asking a parent to collect from your house or you will have to drive them back. How will this work if you get snow? Will you still be able to get them to the village school? What if they don't make friends there?

I would say your son becoming shy in the preschool is probably due to the move across country (did the same with my toddler and it did affect his behaviour) and you don't say whether he attended a nursery or preschool before. I would give him a little longer to settle but talk to the teacher about your concerns.

I was in a very similar situation 5 years ago (cross-country move, ‘outstanding’ rated and oversubscribed but child not thriving). I ended up moving dc after one term and 5 years later am very grateful that I did as dc loved the new school instantly and went from dreading school to skipping in the front gate.

the one thing about your situation that would give me pause is the walkability factor - that would be a big draw for me, but probably more of a benefit when they are a bit older. In addition to visiting the school I Would definitely recommend doing a trial run of the commute during school run times - logistics for some schools can be an absolute nightmare

‘results driven’ is a big red flag for me now - sounds good to the uninitiated, but what it really means is that they will place greater emphasis on school scores than your child’s wellbeing.

Thanks for the replies. My son attended nursery and a childminders before pre-school, really enjoyed both settings, had a good group of friends and still talks about them fondly now.

The headteacher at the current school, talks about KPIs, results, attendance scores constantly. Feels like he is running a company!

The other school is a ten minute drive on country roads the whole way so there won't be traffic but there could be problems in the winter with floods and snow potentially. Apparently the school draws children from a large catchment as the village is small and very chocolate box picturesque and I don't think many families actually live there. It's very tiny though, so that might be too much of a change. I'll view it and see how I feel.

I would also just do some research on sustainability of the small school. If it is tiny and no local families go there then it could close if numbers reduce. I also think from experience of friends whose kids went to a tiny school that while they are great when a 4/5 year old seems so small and the mixed classes, everyone plays with everyone idea is great, by year 5 and 6 the lack of friend options, possible limited sport, drama etc due to school size can get annoying.

I have no experience of a larger school but DD is in Y1 at a small village school (c.150 pupils), with mixed year group classes. It’s a lovely school, welcoming community, the kids and teachers all seem to know each other (including across year groups) and they’ve done a fabulous job with her in reception - the progress is genuinely amazing.

But I don’t know how much of this is down to school size vs teaching approach/ staff at the individual school? It can’t hurt for you to visit the village school, but I’d definitely take a look at how many boys/ girls are in your child’s year, check out how many classes and their approach to teaching mixed age classes (if relevant). A lot of people drive to school from the nearby town (about ten minutes) and they all seem fine with it, it’s just part of their routine. But I love that we can walk!

@BoyMum100 ALL schools are results driven! They have to be and most parents expect to read with dc and crack on with maths. There’s EY attainment goals and why would you not want dc to meet them? Schools want dc to succeed and most parents do too. I don’t know of a single school that doesn’t put dc first but some dc are not great learners so have to be encouraged but any school not doing their best for dc won’t be supported by parents and Ofsted suss them out too!

A bright child will be much happier being stretched and they lap it up. In y1 my dc was learning the recorder and also memorized lines for a leading role in the parents assembly. It’s not pushy: it’s wanting dc to do well and flourish.

Schools are not friendship clubs for parents. Join the pta if you want that. Village schools that are small can have few friendship opportunities because everyone knows everyone and it can be very cliquey. What if it’s a small group boys in the village school class? Limited choice of friends.

Have you had play dates or initiated anything? You are part of the community so why don’t you get going with enhancing it?

Small schools often don’t have sports teams or decent music and many dc can miss out if they want this at school. Clubs might be limited too. Don’t just look at your needs for EY or Y1. Look at y5/6. That’s when small becomes stifling.

It's a very small first school, so it only goes up to year 4. Years 5 and 6 will be at a larger middle school. So this move is just focussing on the first 5 years of primary. But there are only 60 pupils in the entire school!

I saw it this morning and really liked it but it is comparing apples and pears with his current school. There would only be 5 other boys in his class too, so a lot to think about.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner like I said my son wasn't invited to any parties last year in pre school and there was no chat at pick up so hard to initiate, most parents are busy head down types and pre school wasn't so rigid with pickups and drop offs times. However, I have made friends outside of the school and have playdates etc so my kids haven't missed out in that sense. There are already some whole class party invitations though so that would be a chance to meet parents.

I would move from the first school now. The younger he is, the easier it will be to make friends. Personally, I'd be really put off by such a tiny village school, but if you think it meets your child's needs, you should do it.

I hear your concerns but my children went to a small school (which originally I liked) but my son ended up with 5 boys and 2 girls and it was dire. No chance to get to know others of their age, sink or swim if you like the kids, poor resources, no ability to make sports teams. Having moved him it all stood out even more!

@BoyMum100 Not everyone does parties at pre school so I’d not see that as a negative and he’s now being included. That’s positive.

Id be extremely wary of just 5 other boys. Just think - what if 2 have poor behaviour? What if none are like your DS with hobbies and what they enjoy? They might have curated friendships already. It’s a very narrow group for him and he’ll be mixed into another year group. 15 a year is 2 classes really. It’s costing them a fortune if they run 3. It’s not a sustainable financial model. I assume you are Suffolk with a changeover at y5? I would think very carefully about what his needs will be beyond YR.

Just to add a counter perspective on the social aspects of small class sizes - in our experience, smaller classes have been much more inclusive and have had less social segregation by gender for longer. In dc’s smaller class (10-15 depending on the year) everyone played with everyone, they learned how to accommodate different styles of play/ preferences, and it was only towards the end of y4 that a girl vs boy group began to emerge.

obviously this is just one group of children and experiences will vary - I think some of it was influenced by the school and how they managed behaviour and supported social skill development.

you can be unlucky in a class of 10 or a class of 30, amd I am not sure you get better odds of social success just because it is a larger group of children.

I work in a small school. We have YR on their own and then they are mixed in the next 3 classes. I assume the school you saw has a YR class, a Y1/2 class and a Y3/4 class. Socially I really wouldn’t worry - the children do all play across year groups. They also get to know lots of children in the school.
Our school gets together with other small schools for sports teams.

I’d also add that lots of activities like sports were done as mixed year groups which had tangible benefits: 1) dc had friends throughout the school, not just her year group, 2) much more on field time and it was much less intimidating for my not very sporty dc as it was very much an ‘everyone gives it a go’ mentality. Maybe not ideal if you have a dc with an early passion for sport, but in my experience those children are doing leagues outside of school anyways.

Another who says to be wary of too small a school.

With birth rates falling and low numbers there is the question of viability of the school. The fact it has such small classes, despite it been only a 10 minute drive from a large school and people are "raving" about it would concern me. Why isn't it oversubscribed? Usually little chocolate box village schools are oversubscribed and have tight catchments. Unless there are problems - poor Ofsted, poor local reputation, no wrap around, no clubs ect.

I would also not place all my eggs in one basket regarding school for community and adult friendships. Village schools can be a bit odd. For example one of the village schools around us attracts the Instagram/ influencer/ miss hinch types..if you are not this way inclined it is a very lonely school existence as a parent. Another village school round us is very much "local school for local people" and if you are not "from the village" you are an outsider. Another is very very cliquey.

It can be very limiting friendship wise and can make the transition to secondary a shock.

My kids go to a village first school a 10 minute drive away down country lanes. Although 60 is a really tiny school - ours is one full class throughout.

We love it. The setting and the space and the feel. Our catchment school is a 5 minute walk but performing poorly and I’m so glad we chose this one. The teachers and staff all know the children by name and it makes such a difference.

Did you move to Chelmsford?

My son is at a 90 child year group and hasn’t had may parties either. You talk as well about chatting to other parents and a community feel. These all sound like reasons for YOU to want to change the school rather than your child. They’ve only been back 2 weeks. I think you’re being very fast to make a decision from really weak arguments.

We chose a small village school (15 per year) a 10-15 min drive away over the large two form entry school a 10 min walk away, and have no regrets. Both children thrived at the smaller school, right up to year 6. And then transition to a secondary shook with 210 pupils per year with no issues.

they had exactly the same music lessons as the local school, with the same teacher who came in. They had sports teams and school plays and did swimming, and everything else the larger school did. Quite often our kids beat them at sports!

on paper the bigger school was better. The results were better. It had a better ofsted rating. But in person we just didn’t like it. It was very cold and felt like a grade factory. The smaller school was wonderful and friendly and saw each child as an individual. Both children did well academically and carried that on into secondary school.

the financial landscape is touch for small schools, but that doesn’t mean it can’t work.

every MN thread about small vs large schools goes the same way, and I suspect a lot of the anti-small school stuff comes from people with no experience of them, because I don’t recognise the things they say about small schools!

having said that, there is small and then there is small. I wouldn’t go for a school with less than 15 per year group. I’d say that was the minimum, and if lots of years have gaps that would ring alarm bells for me.

school is not the only place to make community in a new place.

academics will matter more in a couple of years and by then you’ll have broken into your local community. and going to a smaller school that is less academic or has less resources might the be limiting.

the school may be large and impersonal
but do you like the tone/vibe of the parents in your kids class? do they live within a similar distance to the school as you? would you like to get to know people via play dates?
give that a go this year and reassess in july.

the school is a place for your kid to socialise, yes.
but there are other ways for you and the family to meet people.
what activities do you enjoy? is there an aligned sport club? scouts? church? WI?
i drank a lot of coffee when i moved to my local area, and was quite chatty with others.

There is no way a small school of 15 a year has competitive sports teams. It’s not possible. Teams of wide ages do they cannot be competitive. Neither could there be a school orchestra. It’s almost impossible. Yes music lessons will be offered but they won’t have the same ensembles or communal playing opportunities. Around here the small schools don’t compete against the larger schools because it’s clearly not fair to.

I’ve met many wonderful heads of larger schools. It’s an absolute joke to say these schools are cold and unwelcoming. The heads know the dc. They ensure dc have many clubs and activities. They often have better send teachers and expertise. Far more teachers have specialisms like sport and arts. It’s a numbers issue - strength in depth. They have more flexibility in the budget and no mixed age classes. For any child wanting better sport or music, larger is better.

Sport and music are very important to us, and we feel we have been better served in a smaller school. School sports shouldn’t really be ‘competitive’ in reception to y4. An early primary school that crowed about being competitive would be a red flag for me - it would mean they are selecting at a very young age based on natural aptitude rather than opening the opportunity of sport to the entire student body.

and for music small class sizes make it much more practical to provide group music lessons that reach a bigger proportion of the student population. Our small school (mostly 15 or fewer per year) run a recorder ensemble, choir and a strings group. All students have had a block of lessons on recorder or violin by the time they leave the school. Orchestra tends to be a slightly older age group than op has in mind - our local music service (open to musicians across the entire district spanning many schools) is open from y3 but it is a very very small number (less than 5) that are y4 or earlier. No primary schools near us are ‘competitive’ when it comes to music.

The school in the post I referred to (19.53) said up to year 6. So yes, y5/6 sports teams play competitively. Well they do here and sporty dc love it. Mine liked music opportunities. I think we had schools aiming for excellence and anyone could try and learn an instrument but the more talented ones wanted collective music and so they should. Parents cannot all take dc around to teachers, clubs and activities after school. My DD was learning recorder in y1 and violin in y3 and beginner strings orchestra at the music centre in y3. No, she wasn’t the only one! Beginner strings was mostly y3. I didn’t imply music was competitive but we used to have school choir competitions. With only 30 dc in y5/6, it’s highly unlikely a tiny school has a good choir. They would all need to be in it and many won’t be keen. As many aren’t keen on sports. DDs were in recorder ensembles from y1. By Y3, some dc went on to play the clarinet.

It’s just better, in my opinion, to have more like minded dc around you and a much wider selection of friends. This really can matter for girls as friendships can be problematic. Around here, there are hardly any YR-Y6 tiny schools and all that are, are CofE. So cliquey and religious. They don’t suit everyone.

Op is in a school system where first school is until y4, so really early years for sport and music. Neither should be selective at that age imo.

yes, many students move on to orchestral instruments in y3, but that doesn’t mean they are ready for orchestra. We’ve found a nice balance for our woodwind fanatic playing recorder in some groups while moving on to flute in lessons and then music service orchestra a year or so later. Music service in our area offers lessons in school (which you pay extra for) and Saturday orchestra sessions- all of which is equally available in small and larger schools.

In my experience, in nursery parties are often organised with people you know outside school. Reception and year 1 are often whole class parties, but often from about November onwards, as it's stressful to organise a party in September, when you don't know many people.

My DC go to a 3 form entry school that is results driven. It works for us. I have got to know a group of parents in both classes. Things may improve if you give it time.

However I understand your worry about your DS being shy, and whether the smaller school would suit him. What does your DH think? Presumably he won't be keen to move your DS?

We are Dorset based. My DH has totally come around to my way on thinking these last couple of weeks. We share the school run and he has also noticed how unfriendly people are, you get zero eye contact with anyone!

As someone else has said, I am concerned this tiny village school is not full in any year group, whereas larger village schools are oversubscribed. However, this could be due to distance from the town.

My yougest is starting school next year and I obviously want them at the same school. It's a shame the only other options are very similar small village schools even further away, as all our local schools are now full.