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Original poster

Do I change to this school or stick with the old one?

43 replies

SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 08:53

Help Help! Decision time
Dd went to a school for year 1 which neither she nor I particularly liked (local Catholic primary). She didn't find it friendly, no playtime as in UK schools, no project or group work, no fun activities. Just sit down, shut up and copy what's on the board kind of thing. It's supposed to be a "good" school in a "nice" area.

Can't find the type of school I want where I live because the school-system here is very different. There are no real independent schools either.

So first school dd hated because the teachers were strict, one would scream and stamp her feet, the children were not very friendly and inclusive towards each other, there was bullying, kicking, punching, nasty comments and so on. Wasn't great. Dd was bullied by a boy right through the year and the school would do nothing about it. Academically not great either but school finished at 1.30 so I could tutor her at home and bring her up to scratch. So that's the old school.

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Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 08:56

school 2 which we're now trying out for 2 weeks is from 8-4 which with the travel time makes for a VERY long day. She's knackered when we get back so no time for music practice and I can forget any tutoring, homework at home. Academically the school is no better I'd say than the old one so this worries me.

It's a bilingual (German,English) school and the approach is different. They sit in grouups, do project works, have a proper playtime and breaks, play sessions during the regular day in addition to that. Some imaginative activies and so on. She enjoys the school much more. The teachers seem nicer to the children and the children are nicer to each other.

Should she stay here although academically it isn't brilliant and I can't do anything at home really to keep her up to scratch because of time constraints and her being too tired? What would you do?

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Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 08:58

sorry about all the typos - in case you were thinking I could do with some tutoring too!

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fawkeoff · 31/08/2007 09:00

i know its more hard work, but you should put her in a school where she is going to thrive and not feel threatened.

Pixiefish · 31/08/2007 09:02

School 2. She'll be happy there and will learn more so there will be no need to tutor her in the evenings

elasticbandstand · 31/08/2007 09:03

why would she need home tutoring.
being out 8 til 4 is long enough without extra tutoring
when she is older she could cope with a bit more
is she 6?

Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 09:03

fawke I think so far (early days mind you) she is thriving there socially.She comes out at 4pm buzzing and happy whereas in the other school she came out at 1.30 glum but she won't thrive there academically. That's the worry.

Maybe I should take this new school as an interim option since at least she seems happy there and hope I find a solution for the academic side of things before too long.

Don't feel good about returning her to her old school, really don't.Have to say they're being very reasonable about her not attending at the moment and so on. In fact both schools are.

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fawkeoff · 31/08/2007 09:04

can she not spend half a day at the new school????gives u chance to tutor her at home????

thirtysomething · 31/08/2007 09:06

second school sonds loads better. she's very young to be worrying about academic progress and if she's allosed more creative and social activities she's more likely to develop confidence and other abilities which will help her shine academically later on.

Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 09:07

For example, in this new school, they only learnt to read English last year and they are still on very basic ORT books. Dd reads sort of Jigsaw Jones detective stories (basic chapter books things) in English these days.

They learn to read in German from scratch this year but she is already a very fluent German reader (Famous Five that kind of thing).

They had to do some writing in English the other day and they cannot yet spell the word "are". They have had one year of school here so they're 6 going on 7. Some other parents told me their children struggled with maths last year but they had no time or energy to work on it at home.

I worry that if we leave Germany and go back to the UK she will be desperately far behind the other children and more so the longer she stays at school here IYSWIM

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fawkeoff · 31/08/2007 09:09

i think its worth asking if she cam go half days, at least shes socialising then

Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 09:09

fawke no, unfortunately, they're quite strict about the times. It's compulsory for all children to be there from 8-4. On Fridays though they leave earlier at 2. If I could pick her up every day at 2, it would be ideal but it doesn't work that way.

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Anna8888 · 31/08/2007 09:10

School 2 sounds much, much better. And I really don't think that you should worry about music practice, tutoring, homework at home. School alone is enough.

fawkeoff · 31/08/2007 09:10

well its ur call.....can u not use sunday as a top up learning day???

elasticbandstand · 31/08/2007 09:12

i think they all catch up, in fact, probably over take us, academically.

are you planning coming back to UK.

I agree 2nd school by the way. She need to enjoy her schooling

Anna8888 · 31/08/2007 09:13

You also just have to come to terms with the fact that children in most continental European countries don't learn to read and write until the year of their sixth birthday, and in bilingual schools don't learn to read and write their second language until the year after that, and so will be behind what a monolingual child in the UK is doing, given that reading and writing starts at 5 in the UK.

Make sure your daughter carries on reading massively outside school (ie buy her lots of books), talk to her and make sure she has fun.

Anna8888 · 31/08/2007 09:15

Sandy - which curriculum is this School 2 following - modified German NC, modified English NC, IB?

elasticbandstand · 31/08/2007 09:16

reading and writing starts at 5 in the uk, but not all children actually can manage until the age of 6 or 7.

Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 09:21

No idea about the curriculum actually Anna!
I'll have to ask the teacher.

They have one German teacher who teaches maths and (obviously) German and I expect follows the German national curriculum but 1 year behind maybe in German? Then the native speaker teacher is for English and environmental studies, project work and whatever else they do and I think they may be trying to follow the British curriculum, although obviously not as intensively as a purely English language school would do in the UK.

Then they have all these activities in English, like art, music, drama or whatever. In the afternoons they have a carer who speaks only German, religion is taught according to confession and in German.

I think it's a bit of a mix and match. Not sure how well it works.

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Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 09:25

maybe I'm not being clear about the age. They start school Sept of the year they turn 6. So now in year 2 most of the class will already be 7, just those born after Sept are still 6 if that makes any sense. Dd is one of the youngest being still 6.

OK so everyone finds the friendlier school better which is reassuring to hear because I have a bad feeling in my gut about returning to the other school.

I just get worried comparing dd's schoolwork with what her cousins are doing. One is the same age in Australia and really far ahead in everything. The other is 5 in the UK and she is also much more advanced in maths and writing. So I can't help getting all panicky about that, you know?

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Anna8888 · 31/08/2007 09:26

I'd try to find out a bit more about the school curriculum, objectives, philosophy before judging whether or not you think your daughter is being educated to the standards you expect.

International schools (of all descriptions) cannot ever meet the academic standards of the best English private prep schools. We expatriated parents have to learn to live with that . But they do (sometimes) offer other things that are academically and developmentally advantageous.

finknottle · 31/08/2007 09:27

Aha - found you Came on here looking for you as have been wondering how things are.
May I say, SSSandy, that for me:
"She comes out at 4pm buzzing and happy" - says it all!
She loves reading, and you ensure she has lots to read plus you can build interesting bits & bobs into Saturday/Sunday (museums etc) esp in Berlin. Remember you & Admylin discussing things to do. Also dd is doing some academic stuff - projects etc. Will spark other interests.
My 2 cents worth would be, leave her where she is. After the vile bullying and the rotten teaching in her old school, it's great that she's "buzzing". I'd let her enjoy that and worry about the academic stuff later. She's bright and she'll cope with any changes better if she's happier in herself, IYKWIM. Right now there's no reason to change, no imminent departure and if there were, well, see above.
Am really pleased for you both. Now stop worrying

Anna8888 · 31/08/2007 09:27

Try not to compare with monolingual systems, especially not Australia - I have cousins there too, in private day schools, and their educational facilities are fantastic.

Original poster
SSSandy2 · 31/08/2007 09:28

elastic, well I hope so! I'm working on it!

Fawke yes I suppose I could do that if we need to.

Thanks for the advice!

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frogs · 31/08/2007 09:30

SSSandy, try to find out to what extent School 2 provides differentiated work for the children according to their level. Differentiation is fundamental to the way UK primary schools work, but is pretty alien to German schools, although they're beginning to catch onto it since the whole PISA soul-searching thing. The school's responses should give you an idea of whether they're more tuned in to UK-thinking or German thinking.

As a follow-up, you could ask them how they would provide work suitable for your dd. A really good question to ask schools of any flavour is "How do you get a balance between challenging children to achieve their best without putting them under undue pressure?" I've found the responses to that in all kinds of schools are very telling -- heads don't seem to have a pat answer to that in the way they do to most parental questions. Go into some classrooms higher up the school and ask to see the exercise books from kids at both the top and bottom end of the range, to see what they're achieving at say 9 or 10. Get the teacher to talk you through how they support and encourage kids at both extremes. As others have said, you may find that by the top of primary school, they will have caught up or overtaken the UK equivalent.

Also check what schools the leavers from school 2 go on to, and consider what that tells you about the kids/parents, and whether you would be happy for your child to follow this sort of path.

aloha · 31/08/2007 09:31

Do adults in Germany end up less educated than adults in England? I honestly don't think so. I think there are many benefits to letting young children learn and develop at their own pace, and few if any to pushing them. She already reads fluently in TWO languages at SIX! That's extraordinary!