Please reassure me that setting at 5 does not mean that much for the future

[Wornout8]

I'll keep it brief. I'm not on the same page as the teacher with regards to dd's ability, she's been seen as high ability previously and has been in top groups, however is now in middle ability and now lacking in confidence. It seems we won't be able agree so I'm resigned to doing extra at home. Is this bad year likely to have much of an effect on her future achievement in the grand scheme of things?

Age 5 or year 5?

Genuine question, why do you think you know better than the teacher who knows the abilities of all the children in the class.

Sorry, at age 5.

I’m assuming you mean reception?
If you’re happy with the school and teaching just do a load more at home to keep her up where she was.
If you’re not then move her now before she loses all confidence.

We moved our DD last year at about Easter (wanted to see if things changed). Her confidence was shot and she was apparently average (having always been well above). She’s now done 2 terms at the New school and the difference is amazing. Her self confidence is back which has been the most noticeable thing and she’s now working at above expected level, they now do the work in school that she’d been able to do before.

Think school 1 report; learning to count to 10/ write her name.
School 2; Sums up to 30, writing/spelling whole sentences independently.
The change was instant.

Kindly ment.

Shes 5. 5. Years old.

It means fuck all

No, it’s not.
Some children in that class will be doing far ‘worse’ than your daughter right now, but may have potential to do better in a few years.

The thing to keep in mind is that atititide to learning is important. What you do in relation to learning (and that’s a very broad definition) is important in creating and maintaining an interest in learning.

I'm not questioning the abilities of the other children, I don't know too much about those, however I know that what dd is doing now she was also doing a year ago if not longer and is also coping well with much harder work at home.

Christ are schools really streaming kids at age 5? That's ludicrous. Surely at age 5 school is only just a step up from Nursery and mostly play led learning?

I see what you mean. Maybe her 'lack of confidence' means she is not demonstrating what she can do in class. Also work she does 1:1 with you at home will very different at school when the class has only 1 teacher and possibly 1 teaching assistant between 30.

Your Y1 DD is on the middle table instead of the top table and you've been and argued with the teacher about it??

How different exactly do you think the work is between the middle and top tables that you will have to do 'loads of extra'? Just tell your DD that, when she has finished her work, she can go and ask for an extra task if she wants to.

Stop asking your DD which table she sits on?? Did she lose her confidence before or after she told you she was on the middle table and you expressed your displeasure?

What do you think has knocked her confidence? Is she finding the work difficult? Is she generally a shy child? (Just wondering if she's showing her best face in class.) But no, groups at beginning of Y1 won't affect anything. They're all learning the same curriculum. Groups change around plenty over the course of year 1 from what I've seen, so it may not even be all year.

Agree with cheese. She may not be doing as well at school as at home with you 1-1. Or maybe she gets easily distracted? Or other children caught up with her and over taken her?

There is a big difference with what a child can and will do at home and what they can and will do at school.
Sometimes it can be that the classroom is too noisy, or that they are used to having the encouragement of a parent, or that they are used to certain equipment or an environment.

At that age children have ‘lightbulb’ moments all the time.
I remember a child last year who really struggled with reading but over one half term suddenly got it and leap through the books.

Not only streaming at 5, but were streaming at 4, since she's moved down, and it's still the first term...

Did you choose the school because of some particular style of education, streaming at age 4 and 5 is not normal - separating for a few topics where differentiation is difficult might be.

So much of KS1 is about repetition, since so much of it is in building speed, fluency, stamina and accuracy, not hearing about new concepts. DD could multiply any number together in reception, doesn't mean she shouldn't be learning times tables later in the school.

All three schools I’ve taught in have ‘streamed’ from the get go. Not always obviously. The two small schools were done within class on tables but the larger school had set 1,2&3 for all core subjects.

Is this a state primary? I've just toured 5 schools in order to complete application for DCs place and only one of them streamed at all and that was only in year six and even then just for maths. Streaming in year one just seems mad and so hard to quantify, kids are all over the place at that age, remembering things/able to do stuff then totally forgetting it. How can they possibly do this effectively? Seems like a pain for the teachers if nothing else.

It’s a problem that she’s so aware of what group she’s in and what that means in terms of ability. My DDs Yr1 class is in differentiated groups for some topics but she’s certainly not overly aware of it... Do you have a sense of what has knocked her confidence? How are her social skills and emotional intelligence? Maybe she finds the classroom intimidating... I’d trust her teachers instincts until you have a real reason not to - I’d be wary of making a big thing of it at this age.

Just to say where she is now will not have any long term effect. Ds1 was considered in the ‘bottom of the middle ‘ ability in maths in reception which I disagreed with. He is now in top set at secondary school being given extension work! Ds2 was in the ‘top of the bottom’ group for reading in year1 and now as a year 5 is at the ‘bottom of the top’ group! Children do not make steady progress. They will progress quickly at times and plateau at others whilst their class mates might do the opposite. A very poor school would keep them in the same group through out their time in primary. When I taught in primary my groupings changed frequently for many reasons. If you are concerned talk to the teacher about what you can do to support her at home and try not to let your worry affect your dd

@BelleSauv unless they’re in specifically different classes most schools won’t make streaming apparent to parents as it gives way to competitive parenting, however it actually makes it much easier for teachers to prepare slightly different work depending on ability. For example in a reception maths lesson you may have one set of children doing number bonds to 5, another set doing to 10 and another to 20. It would be pointless to a child learning numbers to 5 to be set work to 20 and vice versa.

I really really really wouldn't be doing extra work at home to get her into the top sets for a 5 year old :(

It's obviously not ability at 4/5 etc. That is relative age and what theyve been taught. Age being a reason it's not very fair. Much more sensible to teach everyone the same as much as possible.
Also ime teachers cannot accurately judge where a child is. Possibly because as pp have said they may do better in a quieter environment at home.
I can see why parents aren't told. However hiding it means the teachers errors cannot be found out so easily. Also seeing as parent do a lot of the reading with the kids, honestly they have a better idea what their child is capabe of compared to a teacher who may have only read with them 10-20mins altogether (twice) in 8w.

lorisparkle that is great to read as I’ve been guilty of getting caught up in all the reading book bands/maths sets paranoia at my DS’ school (my son is average to low) even though I’m a secondary teacher and I know that even at that age we see huge changes in performance I’ve thw house of a few years (Year 7 high flyers tail off at GCSE or coasters in Year 8 do well at A Level etc). I’ve been thinking I may be kidding myself that he won’t struggle for the next eleven years. Of course, he may, but it’s nice to feel things aren’t set in stone.

To the OP, based on what I’ve said above, you shouldn’t worry about group shifting as it is natural (easier said than done, I’ve shown). The only worry ought to be any effect on her confidence. Again, a good school should not be letting the pupils know about steaming or at least keeping it low key enough that they don’t care. I’d work on stretching her out of school but if she continues to find stuff easy in your mind I’d talk to the teacher. They vary so much too - last year I thought my DC was looking at severe SEN but this year he’s doing better and better. I think the different teachers’ perception of him is the main change - yes, he is more mature and he has improved, but he hasn’t switched bodies which is how extreme the difference reported by the teachers seemed.

Not I’ve thw house, but over the course

That's bizarre. In my Y2 class, I don't have a set 'top table'. Do schools still actually have that? My groupings are quite fluid according to what activity we are doing.

The only thing I would question the school about would be their failure to keep the setting a secret aged 5.

Having said that, we had rumours (and bragging) about setting early on when they didn't yet set, but two of the very early readers sat at the same table so everyone at that table believed this is where the mini-geniuses go.