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Original poster

Will all the grammar for SATs be used in Secondary?

163 replies

bicyclebell · 25/02/2016 22:25

A question for teachers, both primary and secondary.

I'm appalled at all this obsessive grammar learning children are being made to do in primary for the SATS - under the new curriculum.

Its the labeling I can't stand. I'm sure its useful to learn some grammar - although I didn't in the 80s. And I still went to university to study English.

Its worrying me so much that I'm thinking of taking my children out in Year 6 to home school them and so miss the stress and boredom of that SATS year. I'll keep them learning - but not bother with all the grammar labeling.

Will that cause problems in secondary school do you think?

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G1raffe · 25/02/2016 22:26

I've wondered this. Would you really homeschool for year 6 instead? That could be awesome fun!

Original poster
bicyclebell · 25/02/2016 22:38

Yes! A teacher friend of mine who is very strict said 'out of all your crazy ideas this is the most responsible one' or something like that ...

I would love to do it. I'd be sad about DS not being with his friends for the last year as they'll all split up and go to different schools (that's what happens round here) for secondary. BUT DS doesn't like school at the best of times. He likes it when they do interesting topics but SATs year will not be his cup of tea at all.

I don't imagine that his results will reflect his ability either as he has special needs needs and is slow and messy in his work. It bothers me that his future GCSE predictions will be measured by these SATs results ...

But now I'm remembering that he might be made to redo them in Year 7 - if he misses the Year 6 SATs- so maybe this plan won't work at all.

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Feenie · 25/02/2016 22:43

The retakes will start with the current y5. My ds's year Sad

G1raffe · 25/02/2016 22:48

If he redid them in yr7 at least he'd have had a year of fun rathr than a year of cramming.....

Presumably private schools don't teach to the SATS? So bright students go into secondary without all the grammar gumpf.

TheBalefulGroke · 25/02/2016 22:50

I don't think children that haven't sat them have to 're-sit' in Y7. What about the children that come from the independent sector, or abroad? Doesn't it just apply to children that got

Feenie · 25/02/2016 22:55

I don't think children that haven't sat them have to 're-sit' in Y7.

I don't think so either. But I don't know for sure, and I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of possibility at all.

Original poster
bicyclebell · 25/02/2016 22:56

That would make sense TBG.

If they haven't had to cram in all that grammar gumf as Giraffe calls it - they wouldn't stand a chance would they? Or would they make them do refresher lessons at secondary?

The whole thing seems so ludicrous.

What if your child fails in the May of Year 7? I've heard on here - the first retake is January in Year 7 and then May if you've failed that.

If you fail the final retake are you branded as a failure for life?

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madamginger · 25/02/2016 23:02

The new yr2 SATS also tests grammar, spelling and punctuation Shock
We had a meeting at school and were shown a sample paper, it's utterly shit. My 7 year old is basically doing spelling and grammar until May when they are testing them

Feenie · 25/02/2016 23:10

The first retake is Dec 2017 - don't know where January came from. Not that it matters really.

Original poster
bicyclebell · 25/02/2016 23:11

I think parents should protest.

I know there's a petition going. But it would be good if we could go on some sort of strike. How could this be done without people having to take time of work?

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Feenie · 25/02/2016 23:12

Also, they have only released sample retakes in reading and maths, afaik. Not spag.

ChemicalReaction · 25/02/2016 23:30

Interesting. We home educate and were thinking about secondary but were worried about sats retakes so if you haven't sat them you don't need to retake that would be great.

TheBalefulGroke · 25/02/2016 23:31

Sorry- I said Jan, it probably is Dec!

IHeartKingThistle · 25/02/2016 23:38

I don't believe they will need that grammar at secondary for a second, unless they add a SPAG test to the GCSE. I'm an English teacher and I'm pretty horrified by the Year 6 stuff to be honest. It doesn't join up. But hey, maybe there's a master plan I haven't been told about yet Wink

G1raffe · 26/02/2016 06:41

I like the idea of home educating year 6 although I expect by then my child wouldn't want to leave school as they like it! However the whole of junior school now seems tied to these sats. The fear I'd have I guess is its a whole body of information and education all her peers would have that mine really wouldn't have.

Leslieknope45 · 26/02/2016 06:53

My favourite year 11s are ones who have no KS2 SATS due to home schooling- because there is no KS2 data so they can't give me a GCSE target based on what they've done in year 6. Do what you like, they're your child!

ChemicalReaction · 26/02/2016 10:30

Big raffle, why would your child not have that knowledge? You can still teachittothem, just in a more relaxed way and at their pace.

Leslie, good to hear! Grin

ChemicalReaction · 26/02/2016 10:31

Big raffle?!? GIRAFFE!

tiggytape · 26/02/2016 12:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jollyjapes · 26/02/2016 13:25

I would wait and see how your school handles it. I have a DS in Y6 and a DS in Y2 and if it wasn't for MN I would have absolutely no idea anything had changed. Their school is business as normal, DS1 is aware of SATS because they have done a few practise tests but definitely not causing any concern for them at all.

I think a couple of Y2 parents are a little bit wound up, not because the children are bothered but from reading on here.

From MN though I can see there's a huge difference between different schools' approaches.

I agree teaching this extended level of grammar at this age is actually pointless though. They need to get better at the basics and improve their actual writing capabilities rather than simply labelling words and phrases. Writing skills are where alot of secondary DC fall down (according to teacher friends, no experience myself). Writing is much more time consuming to assess though which will be why the big emphasis on questions which can be ticked right or wrong.

Ellle · 26/02/2016 14:03

But the sample test for KS1 grammar and punctuation looks okay to me. Not difficult at all, and the knowledge needed has all been covered already at DS's school (he is in Year 2).

For the children in year 6, however, is a very different matter. I feel for them.

MilkRunningOutAgain · 26/02/2016 14:04

My DS is in yr 8 and has done no / very little grammar since starting secondary. And the new curriculum grammar is even more detailed than the SPAG test he did. SPAG was his favourite thing, so he is more than miffed that it seems irrelevant now.

Original poster
bicyclebell · 26/02/2016 23:14

My DS loves writing creatively. I want him to learn to spell well and I think some understanding of grammar is important. But I am so worried that all of this will stifle what he is good at and will make school boring for him.

His school is relaxed so maybe Year 6 won't be so bad. I'll wait and see and if it is really awful can always take him out at Christmas time, I suppose.

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littlepinkmouseofsugar · 27/02/2016 09:29

Not a teacher, but we are taking our child out of school to HE for years 5 and 6, SATS being one of the (many) reasons for doing so.

I'm hoping if we then decide for our child to go to high school, then the SATS won't need to be (re)sat - will be interesting to get a definite answer on that one.

ketchupontoast · 27/02/2016 14:54

Bicycle - teachers tried striking 2/3 years ago to prevent this but were not backed by many.