Will all the grammar for SATs be used in Secondary?

[bicyclebell]

A question for teachers, both primary and secondary.

I'm appalled at all this obsessive grammar learning children are being made to do in primary for the SATS - under the new curriculum.

Its the labeling I can't stand. I'm sure its useful to learn some grammar - although I didn't in the 80s. And I still went to university to study English.

Its worrying me so much that I'm thinking of taking my children out in Year 6 to home school them and so miss the stress and boredom of that SATS year. I'll keep them learning - but not bother with all the grammar labeling.

Will that cause problems in secondary school do you think?

I really don't understand which of the questions in that test is meant to be that difficult?

Possibly because you are not 10 years old!

It is also a sample ... Some of the questions are much harder. Download a paper. See how that goes.

That's certainly not happening in all secondary schools pieceof

I have seen a full sample paper and am convinced that a lot of children can cope with the content. Not all - but then not all children can cope with difficult concepts in other areas, doesn't mean we should stop teaching them.

Do you teach year 6?

Dorothy isn't in England and chooses to believe that people are against teaching grammar

I have a child in my class, reading age off the scale, scored 181 on the 11+ ( out of 182!!) going on to a selective grammar, achieved a L6 on last years SATs paper who managed to score 54 marks on the sample paper. If he struggled, how on earth do you think the rest of my children feel when they are asked to sit a paper where they might manage to get half right?

spaniel
Sad, unconfident, not clever, hopeless, helpless, stressed.
That's how my y6 DD sometimes feels.

Compared with (some) other countries, we ARE against teaching grammar (at least, all but the most basic grammar).

Simply not true grammar has always been in the primary national curriculum. It just wasn't tested in this way. Previously it was tested by pupils ability to correctly use grammar correctly in extended writing. The new tests mean that children might know the labels but be unable to use correctly.

Quick question-my yr6 DD is coming back to UK for yr 7 in a state secondary school. They are not doing SATS in her current school in any meaningful way ( they will use old SATS papers next term as part of an assessment but aren't working up to them at all) and are not covering the new grammar content. Will she have to sit her SATS in year 7?? I will need to start going through the grammar with her- once I've got my head round it myself ...

mrz - then why have generations of children (including me and all the children I've ever taught) appeared to be learning most grammar from scratch when they started learning a foreign language? I mean, ok, these days they tend to know what a verb, a noun, an adjective and an adverb are (if you're lucky), but that's about it. Whereas when I have taught children from other European countries, they generally understand the grammar of the foreign language pretty well straight away because they are able to connect it with what they've learnt about the way their own language works.

I have spent countless hours of MFL teaching time having to explain how things work in English, so as to help pupils get their heads around French or German grammar. Half of the time they hardly believe me. Sometimes they say things like "Do we have verbs in English, miss?" or "English doesn't have those stupid irregular verbs! Why does French have them?" Drives me bonkers.

Exactly my experience as well. I'm in the UK by the way.

So you DON'T teach year 6 then?

I've got no problem with the teaching of grammar. My concerns are with the assessment and how it turns year 6 into a year dominated by the Sats.

Merciful you stated that grammar was dropped from the curriculum in the 70s (Dorothy said in the 80s) as there wasn't a curriculum in the 70s and most of the 80s (not until 1988) how could something be dropped from it?
Prior to 1988 schools were free to teach what they wanted so some schools taught grammar and others didn't.
Since 1988 grammar has been part of the curriculum. Taught in context not a labelling exercise but to use it correctly in speech and writing.

As a MFL teacher I'm sure you are familiar with the variations between English grammar structure and that of other languages?

Sorry Dorothy from your previous posts about the German curriculum I assumed you were currently working there rather than talking from your experience as a pupil

DorothyL Sun 28-Feb-16 15:18:38 I really don't understand which of the questions in that test is meant to be that difficult?

I have little knowledge of MFLs but I am curious as to whether most European countries teach grammar at this level to children of 10 and under?

This questions is based on the assumption that any comparrison can be drawn.

It is definitely the case that this terminology is taught and tested in Germany at this age.

http://www.klassenarbeiten.de/gymnasium/klasse5/deutsch/wortarten5/ this shows the kind of testing going on in Germany. Obviously the link is in German but I think you can still see that a lot of terminology is used and expected.

DorothyL Sun 28-Feb-16 22:20:50 www.klassenarbeiten.de/gymnasium/klasse5/deutsch/wortarten5/ this shows the kind of testing going on in Germany. Obviously the link is in German but I think you can still see that a lot of terminology is used and expected.

What year group is 5th Klasse compared to in the UK.

The children turn 11 at the end of 5. Klasse

DorothyL OK so 5th Klasse is the same as year 6 in the UK.