Outstanding primary or private pre-prep?

[reallyconfusedmostofthetime]

We send our twins to a nursery attached to a private school. Never thinking we could afford to stay on at the school another mum suggested we asked about bursaries. We did and were offered one to cover three years. Then the primary school places were allocated and we got our first choice in an outstanding school with exam results that have been in the top primary school lists. We'll be living quite restrictedly to pay fees and won't be able to afford secondary private. It's just feels impossibly to decide. Me and DH feel we were held back by our comp schools where being quiet seemed the most important thing and feel the private school will support our dcs to feel more confident to speak up and give them a good chance to be in a strong position for a grammar later on. Has anyone else been in this position?

What would you do after 3 years?

If at that point they would have to move into state anyway, I would start them there. Have you visited the state option?

Is it a 100% bursary?

After three years would you pay full fees year 4-6 and then try for grammar? Or would you move to a state school at year 4?

If the plan is to pay for years 4-6 and then sit the 11+ then I would say go for it.

If you would have to go to the local primary at year 4 I would recommend just starting at state school. You might save a bit of money for secondary if you need to go private at some point then.

Also is the prep for years 1-6 or years 1-8?

Another consideration- will you need wrap round care/afterschool care? If so the prep will be better set up for this /already have longer days. It may be that your additional child care costs here would be not that much ceaper than the prep..

Just a thought.

However if you work, terms at the prep will be shorter so you will need more childcare in the holidays.

Outstanding primary. I would go for the 'as little disruption as possible' school of thought.

You cannot really compare 3 years at a pre prep and your experience at a comprehensive school. They are different phases of education and 3 years of pre prep will not be preparation for the grammar school. Are you talking about a very selective grammar school?

If you cannot afford the higher years in private education then perhaps it is best not to enter the pre prep. You might get another bursary, but there could be more competition for those in the upper years, so you may get a reduced amount. Your chances of moving to the outstanding primary school could then be seriously jeopardised, especially for two chidren in one year group. I would be inclined to go to the local school and see if you can get a bursary for secondary school, if you need one.

My instinct would always be outstanding primary. But of course these decisions are always very individual.

An outstanding primary should be more than capable of giving your DCs the confidence to make the most of their education. Unless you are very sure they'll be able to move to a good school after three years, I'd get them into the outstanding primary now. (That is assuming you also feel that it is outstanding, having had a look around, and aren't just going by exam results).

I would go with the outstanding primary. We are lucky enough to have 2 outstanding primary schools within walking distance of our house. However, there is also another 'satisfactory' one which is the closest of the three. If DD is offered a place there we will go private but if she gets one of the others we will me more than happy.

I would check the "satisfactory" one Madame as Ofsted no longer use this category. What is it now?

State without a doubt. Think of the whole family and fun days and holidays and extra stuff you can do. Our outstanding primary delivers everything you want and more. All state school within 2 miles of us (city) offer wrap round 7.45-6 and lots run cheap holiday clubs. DC are confident, outspoken, with huge diversity of friends

My daughter is at a good primary in inner London and we're delighted. She did the year before reception at a pre-prep and the wrap around care is much better (and cheaper!) in our current state school. The children are encouraged to speak up a lot. We've also put our daughter in the school's drama club for extra confidence. If you can only afford three years, it's not worth it. Save your money for extra tutoring in year 4,5,6 to prepare for the grammar school exams.

We had this dilemma OP. Happy in the nursery of a (n outstanding) Prep - chose to stay on for Reception and into Yr1.

DD is very young in her year - very bright but like a butterfly in terms of attention span back then.

It didn't work for a few reasons - YR1 demands in terms of homework (at barely 6 years old) just didn't sit well with me.

School was better in terms of before/after school care and I could work without worrying about any of that.

But we moved, to an outstanding Primary in Yr 1, because I found the Prep too pushy, I am not a hot house type and think that education is a marathon not a sprint.

I wanted my child to be a child after school and not to have to do 20-30 mins of homework a night, plus reading back then.

I had to give up work in the end due to lack of after school care, but it isn't forever and we don't have any fees to pay for another couple of years.

If I had a naturally studious child I would probably have stayed (or if the school had been a better fit) but I didn't. Absolutely the right decision for us, she is working ahead in a lot of areas 3 years on, without the Prep style homework.

In the situation you describe I would go for the outstanding primary. My DC are at an outstanding primary (actually it went down to good last year, but I still think it's excellent) and it's very different to my memories of state school. My DC are happy and progressing well - I honestly don't see how they could be getting on much better at a private school. We've saved so much money that we may be able to consider private secondary.

Outstanding primary without a doubt.

I wanted my child to be a child after school and not to have to do 20-30 mins of homework a night, plus reading back then.

It all depends on the child - some would find it impossible others a breeze.
My kids used to do that in their not very pushy private primary and we didn't have any issues. They still had lots of time for other things. We never had to sacrifice weekend for homework. It was done on Fridays. Projects were lengthy but then school taught them how to gather and present informations and they just got on with it.

Looking back I am glad they were in that school which wasn't selective by all means and all parents were on the same page about their kids eduction.
I was and am very hands off parent in regards to homework. I believe homework is to enforce material taught so parents shouldn't have to sit with their kids. It is better if their teacher knew what gaps kids had after their lessons.

We wouldn't have been able to afford secondary private. They both went to our local grammar schools and weren't intimidated by workload or expectations each school has of their pupils. Not that they worked extremely hard until their mocks and the actual GSCE's

What are the chances to get places in that outstanding local primary at some point later on?
What are your local secondaries like?

Personally, I would go for the outstanding primary. Save the money you would have spent on private prep and then you may have the option to go private in secondary or keep the money for university fees.

Going against the grain here, and to be clear, my child goes to a 'good' infant school so I'm coming from a different angle, but at DS1's school they have a class size of 16 and that has helped him so much. He's the youngest in year, and always been on the sociable side, so being in a small school where he knows everyone is great for him. I also think that being in an infant school (only up to year 3) so no kids are much older than him in the playground is very freeing for the little ones. I don't think changing school for year 4 will be a problem for him as he'll have gained so much confidence by then.

I would heavily lean towards the private because it will give them a flying start.

antimatter has it though - you need to pick based on what you think will suit the child, and have an eye on what you would do at year 4 - whether there's likely to be enough movement that they could transfer to that outstanding primary for instance.

Thank you for all the thoughtful replies. Both schools aren't the pushy sort. The state school possibly is a bit more academically driven where as the prep concentrates more on the childs pastoral care. We've visited the primary and loved the head but the class sizes are terrifying. We watched the kids learn to count to 20 and thought what about the kids that can already count to 20? In a class of 10 with a teacher and an assistant like the prep will be surely the kids that can already count will be able to learn something else? I think if we really got our heads down we may be able to save now for the three years after the bursary and keep them there. Also to we moved from London to be nearer my parents and DH is hating the idea of living here so a move after 3 yrs looks possible anyway. The kids at the pre prep are really confident. I can see it in my kids already. They chat to adults we meet that talk to them as if they are chatting to their teachers. I've watched some of the primary school kids and they seem on the same page but more hesitant. This is a quiet country town. Everyone says just three years won't make a difference in the long run but it must do somewhere I'd have thought.

What amount of bursary is it? I'd feel a bit concerned at being offered a bursary for the first three years there - would you need to pay (more) after the three years are up? The school would be giving a bursary for a good reason - is it that they are hoping to make money out of you afterwards? I would also want to feel secure on the financial position of the school - giving out bursaries for children in the early years does not suggest to me that it is completely secure financially. What are the class sizes like - do you feel happy the school will continue successfully?

Class sizes are unlikely to be terrifying in the state school. There will be a maximum of 30 children in the classes in the infants. Teachers are also able to differentiate successfully.

A class of 10 would be very limited from a social point of view. That would be a major concern for me.

There are 29 kids in dd's primary school class, and differentiation has never been a problem - the kids are encouraged to move at their own pace.

Ultimately, I think you have to go with your gut feeling about which school will suit your child best, but I definitely wouldn't leap to the conclusion that private is necessarily better. We actually have a lot of kids around here transferring in to our primary school from the local pre-prep/prep - the primary school is oversubscribed, so I think a lot of people go private if they can't get in for reception, and then move when a place becomes available further up the school.

The kids that move from private certainly don't appear to have any particular advantages over their state-educated peers, socially or academically. If anything, perhaps slightly the contrary...

Outstanding primary, no question. You said the state is more academic, then worried how the more able were learning maths. But they clearly are as schools do not get outstanding by leaving children to coast.

The confidence is not so much the work of the school; that's the home. You can give your children confidence around adults for free. Sit around the dinner table chatting, let them order in restaurants and cafes, let them pay in shops and ask where things are...

Also... the confidence you described is in very limited situations. Are the state children more confident around large, socially and ethnically mixed groups of their peers?

We chose state because it gives more flexibility with the money.. My dd (now age 10) was quiet and lacked confidence at 4 but we pushed the extra curricular, particularly a drama group at that stage (although my ds is younger and not up for drama so I think you need to know and understand your child). She is now a really confident child and into everything, including county level sport. We are also paying for tutoring for grammar (probably not needed as she is a pretty fair bet) and overall have spent far less than a subsidised private place, in fact have probably spent less than the uniform bill

Agree with you that UK state system doesn't promote confidence but you don't necessarily need to pay for private to get it ime!