Rank in class

[MilestoneMum]

When I returned from parents' evening last term DH asked me where DD was ranked in the class in terms of ability, as DH's (independent) school would tell parents this.

Would a teacher discuss this? DD is in a state YR and is very capable but at a school which "requires improvement" so I guess we want reassurance she is in the top handful.

I am sure they would tell you if you asked. I have never asked.

I think what would be more useful would be to compare to national average, which most schools would do.

The changes by Gove means that children will be ranked in their class.

I think it's vile personally but that's just me.

Sparkling....we wouldn't at our school. We would compare to national average for that age. Not sure about other schools...but none of the schools I've ever worked in have done it and I've never been asked for it by a parent either (13 years experience).

Highly unlikely I would say. My children's state school certainly wouldn't.
I went to a Private school and our rankings weren't given out either to us or our parents or anyone else.

I work at an independent primary - we don't give out rankings....I would only say top half or bottom half if pushed.

I remember the rankings when I was at independent secondary school but they didn't do it at my Indy primary.

I just want to know that my children are where they should be-I am not really bothered about top of the class-just if they are underachieving.

Teachers are generally reluctant to do this, because so much is changeable when eg are that small and still on EYFS.

But I can remember being completely would up about this with my first (because I had no point of reference and needed reassurance that he was normal!). If cornered, you can usually get a teacher to 'fess up if the pupil is in top/middle/bottom third. But, trust me, in the long run YR 'rank' is not going to matter.

My two are 12 and 14 so may be a bit out of date mamma. I vaguely remember a Year 4 teacher saying where one of them was in the class order.

They can probably tell you where she is compared broadly compared to other children her age - eg. working at 30-50 months or 40-60 months in particular areas.

Rumour is that Gove has abandoned his plans to rank children!
I certainly wouldn't tell you how your child ranked in comparison with other children, I might say how they rank against national averages. If I had a class of low ability children, an "average" child might be near the top of the class, if I had a class of bright children, the same child might be in the middle ability wise. Class rankings are meaningless.
A school which "requires improvement" doesn't necessarily have children of low ability so even a "capable " child might not be in the top handful, it depends on the rest!

I hope that's true spaniel...maybe...god forbid...maybe he listened to the teachers' opinions on that one?!

Why are people so interested in where their children are in relation to the rest of the class?

It's pretty meaningless in a non-selective school. dd1 is in the top groups for numeracy and literacy but she doesn't know how many beans make 5 and her reading is below the national standard. The whole class have had a rough ride and compared with ds1 (also top group but a completely different school experience) she is miles behind where he was at that age. She also has 12 EAL pupils so in YR it was hardly achievement to have better English than pupils who had no English at all. There is no value in me knowing that she is doing well in the class compared to other dcs when the other dcs are behind as well.

Oh, I remember being ranked at secondary...the top 3 were highlighted and later bullied by classmates for being a swot. It was not cool to be able at my school

When I've asked where my DC are in the class I've been told which 3rd they are in. Schools tend to set work at higher, middle, and lower levels IME. I only asked with DS2. DS1 was obviously the most able child in the class, and DD's teacher repeatedly told me "She was still only little" which was code for; She really doesn't get this reading and writing lark, and she will be in the bottom set in Y1.

In YR it's very difficult, if impossible to rank children. You can rank on test scores, etc, but that just doesn't happen in reception, and a child who enters school not realising sounds link with letters, while the rest of the class can, can be reading simple words independently by February, while some classmates are struggling to blend words.

Why does being in a requires improvement school mean you want her to be top? The school can easily have bright, capable children but still require improvement. No matter how much Gove would like it, we don't currently judge schools purely on intake.

all I know is that dd and ds are in the highest ability groups for maths/literacy in their respective classes. DS is in his own wee maths group as he is doing maths a year or two ahead of the rest of his class.

This is pointless.

As others have said, it's the comparison with the National picture that's more valuable. And how much progress they are making as an individual that's even more important.

I asked whereabouts DS was in his class in Yr3 only telling you this to highlight an example and was told firmly by his teacher, that she wasn't able to discuss that.

That's really lovely, ilove and you must be very proud of them. but I am not sure how that moves the thread along really.

I won't rank children because we look at and assess each strand rather than just one lump. e.g. So hypothetically a child is 5th in decoding, 16th in comprehension, 12th in handwriting, 6th in spelling, 30th in punctuation, 19th in grammar, 2nd vocabulary choices, 24th in creative composition, 2nd in place value, 12th addition and subtraction 7th in knowing times tables ..... the list goes on and that is just the rankings for one week, as by the end of the week's teaching it could change.

Anyway it is all about national expectations not rankings compared to current peers as cohorts can vary so much.

Why would you want to know where they "ranked" in class ?
Ability in terms of what ?
If you want to know the NC level they are working at in a subject, then you can compare where they are nationally, but I couldn't give 2 hoots about a snapshot judgement as to if Tom or Fed scored higher or lower in a test than my dc, just that my dc were doing their best, and improving Year from year.

is that not what the OP was asking? About where their children are performing in the class?

I'm in Scotland though so we dont have the National Levels to compare them to (and I dont really know what they are or what they mean)

do your children not get put into ability groups within the class? I know ours do for maths/literacy

I read that Gove wants assessments to identify what percentile children are compared to national figures rather than rankings within a class.