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Primary education

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Original poster

Meeting with the inclusioon leader. What do i say ?

26 replies

corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 09:20

I am really concerned about DS lack of progress in maths. He is in year 4 and his maths level is 2b , he has made no progress this year. We have been having extra tutoring since the begining of the year and whilst his attitude to maths and his overall confidence with it has seemed to improve there it hasnt seemed to helped that much.
I have asked to meet with the inclusion leader to discuss a plan for year 5.Am feeling anxious aboiut the meeting, as there appears to be no extra intervention for year 5. What should i say?, and what is reasoable to expect from the school in terms of support for him.?

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daytoday · 11/07/2011 10:06

In my son's school they seem to start intervention in Year 3. Therefore, I would want to know what level my son was in Year 3 - if he was low on the scale - what did they do about it then?

I'm not an expert and certainly find it very intimidating talking to the teachers. My husband is much better as he can be direct so he took the meetings.

Essentially, our son made one sub-level progress in Year 3 from 2b to 2a. Some years apparently they only progress a little but we were very clear to the year 4 teacher that if he only made 1 sub-level progress again in Year 4 (so thats 2 sub-levels in two years) we would be unhappy. It would indicate to us an underlying issue (or poor quality teaching.)

Essentially, I would also want a meeting with Senco etc to be clear there is no underlying issue.

Then I would be curious to know who he sits with. Are there strong personalities inhibiting him? Has he got a lack of confidence? All of these things can be addressed by the teacher. Ask her for a strategy and a follow up meeting. Maybe he needs to move tables and have a new set of children to work alongside.

My son is one of those lovely middle children who behaves really well and is doing ok and he can sometimes be overlooked by the teacher.

IndigoBell · 11/07/2011 10:21

If he's a 2b at the end of Y4 he is 2 years behind where he should be. If he has also made no progress this year (despite tutoring) then it's a real cause for concern.

The first thing is the inclusion leader should be concerned and not try to fob you off.

The second thing is, like you said, what extra support is he going to get this year?

It is reasonable to give him all the extra support he needs.

But if he's already had a lot of 1:1 and it hasn't worked I'm not sure what the best next step would be.

He could have

  • A TA supporting him on his table during whole class maths
  • Attend a weekly or daily maths intervention (there are heaps of them) (they can be either group based or 1:1)

How is his reading and writing?

Do you feel he has dyscalculia? Or do you think it is something else?

Are you going to continue with tutoring? Is it 1:1 tutoring?

Why do you think there is not extra intervention for Y5? They need to provide interventions for all the kids who need it, no excuses.

Original poster
corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 11:49

He is very well behaved and polite so yes I think he is overlooked. His reading is advanced 4b , writing a bit behind at 3c , but he has made progress with writing this year, so I'm not worried with that.
I've stopped the tutoring because I've felt at£22.00 session we weren't getting anywhere. I've signed up for Carole Vodermans Maths factor he seems to be enthusiastic about working through the homework.
His maths teacher told me this morning there was not an intervention programe for year 5s

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Original poster
corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 11:53

I've just looked he was a 2a in year 3 , so he has gone backwards.

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IndigoBell · 11/07/2011 12:03

Well, don't listen to the teacher who says they don't provide interventions - it is up to the inclusion leader to organise interventions, not the teacher.

They need to do something for him - and you will make sure they do :)

I think he should be on the SEN register, and should have an IEP (Individual Education Plan) - and the IEP should specify what support he gets, by who, how often etc.

Going backwards should def trigger all sorts of concerns from school.

Original poster
corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 12:29

Would they put him on the SEN register when he is doing well in other subject areas.

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IndigoBell · 11/07/2011 12:33

Corine - yes. He needs extra help, and therefore he should be on the SEN register.

You can be on both the G&T register and the SEN register.

All being on the SEN register means is that you need extra help for something. It doesn't even have to be for something academic.

sarahfreck · 11/07/2011 12:51

Corine
What Indigo says is correct. He should definitely have an Individual Education Plan ( IEP) that has specific targets for each half term and says what the school are going to do (in addition to standard lessons) in order to help him achieve these.
I am very surprised that he has made no progress with 2 terms of tutoring. I'd suspect either a) poor tutoring b) the tutor has spent the time filling in gaps from lower down the syllabus (so your son should be more secure at this level than he was before) - though if this was the case I would have expected him to show some progress or at least not go backwards or c)your son may have a specific difficulty like dyscalculia

Original poster
corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 14:33

Yes the tutor was trying to fill the gaps. I Realized I could to do the same thing with the mathsfactor for less cost. The tutor did suggest he may have dyscalculia, but as there is no specific test for it how would we .
They do set targets which he hasn't met. Sigh.

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Original poster
corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 14:35

Do all children have an individual educational plan or just those with special needs?

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IndigoBell · 11/07/2011 14:39

All children on the SEN register have an IEP. But the SEN register is for children with special educational needs - not for children with special needs.

So dyscalculia would fall well and truly into that category. As would any child who is not making progress.

Don't worry about whether he does or doesn't have dyscalculia - but research it to see if you can get any ideas as to how to help him more. - Anything that will help someone with dyscalculia will also help your child.

sarahfreck · 11/07/2011 14:40

Just those who are behind and need extra/different help

Original poster
corinewmoon · 11/07/2011 15:30

SENCO just said that there is nothing more they can do to support him in school Angry

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IndigoBell · 11/07/2011 15:33

That's a terrible attitude :(

I think I would be taking this further - ask for a meeting with the HT.

If your child has gone backwards over a school year the SENCO needs to be involved.

sarahfreck · 11/07/2011 16:05

Well if he has not been on School Action or School Action Plus and had an IEP before, then there obviously ARE more things they can do to help! (and are required to do)
I'd second what Indigo says regarding involving the HT. You might also want to contact your local Parent Partnership as they might be able to help. Google Parent Partnership and name of your Local Authority.

sayithowitis · 11/07/2011 17:52

SEN COP Here
Section 5 is of particular relevance to your situation.

The school is obligated to give your son support. The type of support may range from appropriate differentiation of class work, to 1:1 support with a TA or bringing in an outside agency, such as an educational psychologist to assess your son and give the school guidance as to how to best support his learning. They cannot just wash their hands of him. I would want to know exactly what support has he been given up to now? Why has he not been given an IEP / IPP? ( If he has, you should have known since the school has a duty to inform you and to invite you to the twice yearly review that is required under the COP). If he has had an IEP/IPP and you were unaware, why have they not fulfilled their statutory obligation to inform you?

For a child who is so far behind, some provision should be made, or advice taken. Whilst an IEP/IPP has to be reviewed twice annually, it should be ;looked upon as a working document and as targets are met ( or not), they should be updated to take account of this.

Personally, I would be printing out the relevant sections and taking it to show the SENCO and remind her of her legal obligations towards all children with SEN in her school.

Original poster
corinewmoon · 12/07/2011 10:17

Approaching this teacher makes me nervous. Other parents have told me that she is difficult to deal with. What do you think about putting all my concerns in a letter in the first instance . And then suggesting a meeting ?

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IndigoBell · 12/07/2011 10:24

You don't need to talk to the teacher.

You need to talk to the SENCO, and if the SENCO won't listen to you you need to talk to the HT.

I would email the school, addressing the email to the SENCO (via the school's main email address) and say you are very concerned about DSs lack of progress in maths this year. He appears to have gone backwards despite having private tuition, and is now 2 years behind where he should be. Could you have a meeting to discuss what support school are able to offer him.

The HT will probably then read the letter as well as the SENCO.

Good luck.

You have to do this.

Original poster
corinewmoon · 12/07/2011 10:48

It was the SENCO I had a brief chat with yesterday. She is also a class teacher and a deputy/assistant head . She said she couldn't meet this week as her diary is full it will be difficult for me next week as we are goibg away a couole of days early .When I said I was concerned about him being 2 years behind . She said what do you mean by 2 years behind,? she also said he is working in a small group in the lowest 'set' so there was not much more they can do in school. I then spoke to his class teacher who advised working closely with his new teachers when he goes into year 5 .

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IndigoBell · 12/07/2011 11:16

At this stage of the year there is no harm in leaving it till next year.

First week back talk to his new teacher and ask for a meeting.

The SEN provision in this school sounds terrible - if you are not happy with his next year's teacher would it make sense to move school?

Absolutely he is 2 years behind. A 2b is the level all children are expected to make by the end of Y2.

Original poster
corinewmoon · 12/07/2011 11:32

SENCO just called me to suggest meeting for next week. Now to prepare!

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IndigoBell · 12/07/2011 11:44

Well done!

I guess after talking to you the SENCO has looked up your DSs records and is now concerned....

Original poster
corinewmoon · 12/07/2011 17:23

So a little further advice needed. I got DS 2 reception report today . He is in the infant school( same location but different head etc) it said he was getting extra support with maths , literacy and social skills etc . Which I knew about,it also said that he is on the special needs register ( which I did not know about) so what does this mean exactly? And how does it differ from special educational needs.

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IndigoBell · 12/07/2011 21:54

special needs register means he has SEN - and what it really means is that he is getting extra support -which you did know about.

Legally they're meant to tell you when they put your child on the SEN register, and it's 'best practice' to have an IEP (Individual Education Plan) every term which is reviewed and agreed with you.

So you need to go in and fight that battle as well :(

If he has difficulties in 3 areas (esp including social skills) I think I would ask them if they think he needs to be seen by a paed :( :( :(

Original poster
corinewmoon · 12/07/2011 23:40

Hmm , I think the infant school is a lot more on the ball.
Ofsteded 'outstanding' in stark contrast to the 'satisfactory' junior school.
TBH I think DS 2 is just a bit of a late developer he is a young 5 year old and very stubborn. Will be speaking to the teacher tomorrow though.

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