difference between French and British way of correcting homework

[iamnotaprincess]

Niece is staying with us who is being educated at a French school. She showed me her school books, FULL of red marks to correct anything from spelling, grammar, etc.

My own ds' school books instead have stickers, smily faces, the teacher does not correct all the errors.

Who is doing it right?

Am not from the UK, so all new to me....

Both kids are 7.

I wonder if any research has been done on this subject...

I went to a french school and all those red marks were soul destroying. I did much better when I changed to an English school. May well have been to do with many other factors, but at least I felt better about myself.

I agree those red marks can be soul destroying, am sure ds would not cope at all..It seems odd there isn't one system in place...

There has got to be a purpose to correction. Children should not be given work where they make multiple errors.

If I get work from children that has more than one or two errors then I should question whether the work was inappropriate.

One or at most two errors can easily be attended to by a child, especially if the feedback is immediate. More than that, and if the feedback is well after the event, it's probably a wase of time.

If parents are supervising homework, it is better if any corrections are made immediately so that the child can learn from the mistake.

Education is free in France.

And with most state-provided 'free' services its SHIT not as benificial to a childs development.

Education is free in the UK as well, Vermdum

That's a VERY good point, Mala. Thanks - hadn't occurred to me before. Always worry that this idea of not correcting every error because it will discourage the child means the poor kids don't know about many of their mistakes. How will they ever learn to use an apostrophe correctly if the teacher doesn't point out when it's been misused? But you are right, if the work set was appropriate to their stage, there shouldn't be so many corrections that it's soul destroying.

Dancing - Sorry for lack of clearence: The state pays for fees for ALL education, includeing the staff/basic running costs at university.

Malaleuca - you say that kids shouldn't be making mistakes - but they are asked to write sentances virtually from day one - well before they have the skills to write. So they will make many many mistakes.

To write a sentance correctly you need to:

• Form all letters correctly
• Spell words correctly
• Use punctuation.
• Be able to construct a sentance.

Kids are clearly expected to write well before they have mastered any of these skills. So what should you correct / leave in these situations?

Should you focus on just one of these targets at a time and ignore everything else?

Even in maths, kids may be expected to do maths before they have mastered writing numbers ( for example which way round they go). Does this count as a mistake?

Sorry. This is a genuine question. I don't know what to to with 2 of my 3 kids who aren't doing well in the school system....

As a parent I don't correct as the kid is doing their work - because I don't want to break their flow. If they are trying to concentrate on what words to use in a sentance, and I talk to them about spelling, I've distracted them...

Indigo - yes indeed, you need to know a heck of a lot to write a decent sentence. It makes me sick when I see what small children are expected to do before they have anywhere near the requisite skills. Is it any wonder those who can't end up disliking school work , and eventually become disaffected!

What I do if I am in a class where children are expected to write before they know how, is to concentrate on the basic skills you have listed in that order, letter formation, segment and spell a basic code one syllable word, capitalise and full stop. I help a child with rewording so they have a simple sentence to remember, and draw 'word boxes' to help if necessary.

I'd opt for the French style every time, which is similar to my own chidhood education in this respect. Throughout my DDs state education here in the UK I have despaired at the glaring spelling mistakes and errors of grammar which remain uncorrected in their "marked" homework and have been known to take a pen and highlight them myself, discussing with DDs what they should have written.

I know that my English was far better than my daughters' when I was their ages and also that it improved considerably when I HE-ed.

I know that some will say that so many red marks and no smiley stickers are demoralising but I don't go for that argument!

It's true that the French system is more punitive but it does produce a higher standard of general literacy - I find in general French children make fewer grammatical errors than English children of the same age.

The whole system of teaching is completely different. French children have weekly dictee where the sole purpose is to correct your spelling, punctuation and grammar. Maths questions are basically 20 repetitions of the same basic calculation. From the day they start writing they're marked on their handwriting, spelling, punctuation, verb conjugation, syntax etc. including number formation in maths.

The 'right' answer is the goal. Not expression, creativity or anything else. The only way you know whether you have the right answer is with a tick or a cross.

It doesn't have to be red pen though!

iamnotaprincess - yes research has been done...

FWIT I think it depends upon what you wish your children to be good at ... personally I mark to the lesson objective...I also correct 3-4 spellings.

All my children in my class leave happy to write. It is not that spelling isn't important but I want my children to write focusing on content not worry about spelling. WE have a weekly spelling and grammar lesson where that is the focus.

But Cazzy, how are children to learn if you leave their mistakes uncorrected? Won't they be left with the impression that the lack of an apostrophe or poor spelling is fine? It's almost like hiding information from them. I know many friends of mine suffered in the 70s and 80s as they'd been to primary schools that used ITA, for instance, and just couldn't get their heads round actual spelling.

Think it is more European to focus on grammar and spelling earlier than in UK which rewards creative self-expression more. Few UK schools do specific dictation and grammar lessions now. Similarly handwriting style is more uniform.

dd had job-share class teachers this past year - one marked in red, the other in green. I was surprised on looking through some of the books how much more aggressive red ink appeared even where the comment was positive.

deoends on kid mainly
i correct a LOT

Good for you!

I don't have any experience of the French school system but I do remember a post about the French homework given in Belgian schools and it was truly off-putting. This thread has made me think of another thread I read the other day:

correcting posts

I got the impression that actually a lot of adults are genuinely unsure about English grammar, spelling and punctuation. After reading it, I was thinking of doing an MN poll asking whether people felt truly confident that they could use written English correctly. I was too lazy to do it.

If it is true that a lot of people don't know when to use say there or their, or how to spell common words, it is possible that our system is not the best since it hasn't given a lot of school leavers mastery of their own written language which is a fairly basic skill to have.

However the French system doesn't really appeal to me much.

btw I am not jumping on people who feel they cannot spell, use apostrophes etc correctly. It is the system that is supposed to effectively teach all this and seems not to have which bothers me.

I am not always sure of own spelling as it happens. I wonder if we should have a spelling reform so that words are rewritten to more or less ocnform with how they are spoken. I know different regional pronunciations etc get in the way there but it would still be possible. Would that be feasible or just drive everyone mad?

I am not sure if this is relevant.. but when I did french and german at school, the biggest hurdle for me was understanding english grammar. After all you can translate into a future tense if you dont know what a future tense is.

So perhaps if we spent more time teaching our kids basic grammar then it would be easier for them to pick up other languages

yes that is true. At the latest when you have to learn a foreign language half way effectively, you need to know the grammar of English., at least the barebones of it.

I do think the French system is a bit too prescriptive. I have a french niece who was made very unhappy at school, because they made such a big thing of her handwriting, which by English standards is extremely good, and didn't provide much in the way of encouragement for what she was good at. The constant emphasis on what she found difficult, to the detriment of any rewards for what she did well (they saw she was bright and kept promising her more interesting work "once her handwriting had improved", but her handwriting never did...), made her extremely anxious, to the point of needing professional help. It is not a system with much flexibility in it in the early years, from what I have seen (you constantly have to repeat and practice certain core skills until you reach a certain standard before they will let you move on to a higher level in ANYTHING), which must be a nightmare for any child with dyspraxic, dyslexic or other similar tendencies! Obviously, some French schools are going to be more flexible in their approach than others, though, so this is a very broad generalisation.

I think a few formal grammar and punctuation lessons, where correction of all grammatical, spelling and punctuation errors is allowed, wouldn't go amiss before the end of primary school in English schools, however. But this should be kept separate from creative writing and other areas of the syllabus, where a more relaxed approach to such errors should be allowed in young children who might otherwise be put off the entire primary school syllabus.

That's my penny's worth, anyway!

I think the English system is better, my ds (5) is very happy to sit and write a little story now, the spelling is all over the place and the punctuation is non-existent, but these skills will come with time. I expect as his reading fluency improves and he has spelling tests at school, he will pick up correct spellings, and grammar is taught - just not from the outset. I would hate it if he was nervous about writing anything, in case he got it wrong.

I spent a year doing the first year of the A level equivalent at a French school and my history teacher used to wave my test papers in the air and tell the french class that I made less mistakes than they did !! The other difference I found in French secondary schools though (not sure about primaries) is that the pastoral care is non-existent, there's no way my teachers would give me extra help after a lesson, or help in any way other than the standard teaching time. My experience is very limited though (although it were a nice school !)

I think it is commonplace to use smiley faces in French 'maternelle'. Once they are in primary school (usually age 6) they move over to a mark out of twenty.

It's a lot harder to write a correct sentence in French than in English because often the conjugated verb sounds the same but is spelt differently.

DS is 7 and his teacher corrects all the mistakes but such mistakes would not affect his mark unless the object of the work is specifically evaluating the verb endings he has already been taught.

I don't think it is a problem being prescriptive when it comes to grammar? In most cases there is a right way and wrong way.

But the French system doesn't leave much opportunity for personal expression (where being prescriptive is a problem).