Potty training 4 year old - at my wits end

[SeeYouLaterAlligator1]

My DD turned 4 two weeks ago. I've been quite chilled with the potty training, telling myself she'll do it when she wants to. I've also had a lot going on in my life for the paat year, so it kind of fell by the wayside.

I've had her in pull ups for around 8 months and try and encourage her to use the toilet, but she hasn't been. Last week, i decided that we really needed to get cracking with it. So i told her that she was now in big girl pants and had to use the toilet. She seemed happy enough with this. However she continues to use her pants like a nappy. I've told her she'll get a treat if she uses the toilet, she just doesn't care. I ask her every 15 mins or so if she needs the toilet, she says no. I sometimes just take her to the toilet. Sometimes she will pee but usually not.

I have no idea why she won't use the toilet but she's now 4 and surely should be potty trained by now.

Does anyone have any tips?

Get a potty training book. Read it properly and completely stick with it.
It doesn’t sound like you’ve done any training at all.

That sounds hard going. I would stretch the time between trips to more like 30-40 mins. She won't need to go every 15 mins so it's a pain for her to keep being interrupted. With ours, we bribed with raisins: 1 raisin for simply sitting on toilet for 3 seconds. 3 raisins for a wee, a handful for a number 2. And although we asked if she wanted to go, we took her anyway every 30-40 mins regardless of whether she said yes or not. She's admittedly a bit younger and we just picked her up and carried her to the loo!

How long have you been going with pants? A friend advised us it took longer for their DC to get it than they'd expected, and to not give up when it feels hard, as that is about the point it might be starting to click. With us it took 4-5 days before we felt like we were getting somewhere, and even then another week before she was reasonably reliable.

My son is three and is getting on well with potty training although we do still have accidents at times. Compared to my first son, he is much more motivated by food and also activities, and getting out of the house. So I don’t worry too much about checking constantly if he needs a wee but I do always, before transitioning to the next ‘thing’ say, “ok quick wee before we go to the park”, “ok, if you do a wee now, I’ll go and open the garden door”.
He sometimes says he doesn’t need a wee and I say no problem, its ok if you don’t do a wee, but go to the toilet and check, maybe your body has a wee ready for you”. It does sound a bit daft but this approach has never not resulted in a wee, however small a trickle it may sometimes be.

We made a big song and dance whenever DCs did in the potty. Literally- we sang a song praising them and danced around the potty. We also promised a big reward for consistency during the day, then at night - a toy that they wanted. We read lots of children’s books about potty with them.

We followed the potty training method on Mumsnet. You have to stick to a schedule.

You have to commit to it, it’s now urgent as you shouldn’t send DD to school in pull ups - it’s unfair on her and the staff.

You need to stick at this. Rome was not built in a day. You already have had some success so you need to be singing and dancing a fun potty song (make it up and make it full of energy).

Don’t go back to pull ups. They are nappies. Toilet training requires pants so the child feels wet when the inevitable accidents occur. I would have thought that in a four year old there could be a lot of unlearning to happen. She has been able to ignore bladder signals for such a long time. You will get there if you are calm, you praise success and ignore failures.

Use thick towels or incontinence pads on furniture or car seats so that she feels wet when she has an accident. Maybe let her wear a (washable) posh fancy dress outfit and encourage her to keep it clean and dry.

You can buy books like “I want my potty” to keep up the enthusiasm at story time. Come back and share your progress.

You need to stick to the underwear, don’t go back to nappies.

as pp we made such a fuss when she done something on the potty/toilet, for weeks. She’s been trained 8 weeks now and I still someone’s do.

take her to buy some new underwear, any characters she likes particularly may be a good start.
offer rewards.

What training would you suggest?

I've explained it all to her, we've done role play with her dolly and dolly's potty, we've watched potty training episodes ie Ms Rachel, we've read books about potty training, I've promised treats if she's successful. Can you share what worked with your kids?

I suggest stop using pull up pants.

We've been going with the pants for around 8/9 days. It's just so difficult, she is on the waiting list for ADHD assessment and is an absolute ball of energy, we've been stuck in the house for over a week now trying to get the training down and we're going stir crazy..

Isn't it weird how bloody gross it is and yet none of us remember and no one ever mentions it really afterwards idk the human animal is freaky

We had a potty training party with all of ours. Put up balloons, got a cake and a small present and made it a big event, obviously wasn’t potty trained in a day but it set us off to a great start and she was so excited to begin x

Thank you, i'll give this a try. I'll try anything!

Some ex just don’t feel bladder signals. Thats why they “ignore” them! They often don’t care about wet pants either.

@SeeYouLaterAlligator1 What is her speech like? Can she tell you what she wants in an eloquent way? Is she going to school in September? When was she 4? Yes, she’s late and I think you are now going to have to persevere with knickers. I’d take her after drinking and before you go out. So no snacking drinks - have a timetable. Then it’s more predictable. Have you asked her what she feels about wet knickers? Any words she uses when they are wet? Does she tell you? What does she do when they are? She needs to recognise the signs and be able to communicate her feeling. What does nursery do when she’s wet?

I've been doing daft dances and high fives around the toilet on the rare occassion that she has done a pee in the toilet.

Do you have a link to the specific mumsnet potty trianing please, I can't seem to find it?

I used the Oh Crap method for both of mine.

It’s intense but works. The first two or three days will feel like you’re in prison as you won’t be able to go anywhere and you’ll just be watching for signs they’re about to go all the time. Day four can be patchy too so you’ll thing about giving up. You have to persevere. Days 5 and onwards will feel so, so different.

You have to properly lay down the law and stick with it. Leaving it up the child is just not going to cut it.

This method worked with both of mine and they couldn’t be more different to each other.

My main advice is not to flip flop and mess around. Be absolutely strident in your approach and never ever give up.

Get out and about! Take a portable potty and a bag with at least 5 changes of clothes (including socks and any extra shoes unless you have some crocs or washable shoes) and just get out and about, staying cooped up wont be doing any good for her morale.
You can do it!

What’s gross?

Yes i've got puppy pads all over the furniture. I think i'll have to just bin the pull ups except for night time.

The "Oh Cra*p" method. It's basically cold turkey. Doesn't work for all kids but would suggest you're past the the "wait until ready" and go slow approach.
Clear your diary for a good few days and stay at home. Naked bottom half. Watch her like a hawk for any sign of doing a wee and keep the potty nearby to move under her.
Yes there will be accidents. And yes it's annoying to stay at home for several days, but if you can dedicate the time you can get quite quick improvements.
Keep pull ups for bedtime for now.

Training someone to shit and piss in the correct place and cleaning the failed attempts for days or weeks or months (or years)

And don't even get me started on the modern practice of chocolate buttons rewards for getting it in the bowl 🤢

Well, it’s certainly less gross when the child is of a more appropriate age. 2/2.5 is more than old enough.

Oh OP, I feel you. Both of mine potty trained at around 3/3.5 and it was very challenging to get off the ground, especially with my eldest DD. We found that once there had been some success that it kind of avalanched and got going, but each time that took 2 weeks or so. We found that waiting until they said they didn’t want to wear nappies anymore (DD) it seemed bothered by having a nappy changed (DS) meant they at least had buy in. We had had previous attempts prior to this that were absolutely hideous.

My advice would be to fully commit to knickers. Take her shopping and let her choose ones she likes. Have a mix of potties, toilet seats, etc available so that she can choose what feels comfortable. Stop asking her all the time and instead take her to the bathroom on a loose schedule. You could also try letting her wee in the shower or going yourself in front of her and then saying ‘your turn’ to try and inspire. Don’t stress too much about poos, they are a separate beast. Get wees sorted and the rest will follow organically.

You could also read some tips about potty training neurodivergent children. My DD has AuDHD and had we known at the time it would have been helpful!

Her speech isn't great, we have a referal in for speech and language therapy. She can chat but it isn't overly obvious/clear what she wants all the time and her speech isn't at the same level as her peers. She doesn't tell me when she's wet, she doesn't seem to care. I just check constantly. Nursery have just been changing her when she's wet, they've also been taking her to the toilet regularly however she hasn't yet managed to do a wee in the toilet for them. She has only been to nursery once in the 8/9 days we've been trying though as I took annual leave.

She isn't going to school this year, she's too young (we're in Scotland), she won't start till next August.