2 private donations of £36m each to one political party - is this the future of democracy in a world at the mercy of tech bros?

[IwantToRetire]

Not particularly interested in discussing Reform. As anyone who wants to do that could set up a thread just like there is one about the Greens.

Of course the money could just be frittered away, but do these donations create an imbalance in terms of other parties having a voice, not just now, but when there is the next General Election.

For info (and there may be others) short bios about each man who has donated. Although, if as stated, they don't expect to decide party policy, maybe their personal history doesn't matter.

https://news.sky.com/story/ben-delo-and-christopher-harborne-who-are-reform-uks-two-mega-donors-13584792

Edited to add: I would ask this question if such donations had been made to any other Party, whether Labour, Tory, Greens etc..

Well I look back on the Tories with misty eyes these days, Labour have been so bad!

Thank you. Interesting read. Some I agree with and some I completely disagree with. I think until we unlock the stranglehold that our obsession with land / property value has put us in, pretty much everything else is tinkering around the edges, because we won't see investment in all the other areas of the economy.

This Labour lot only understand spending other’s money - they have no notion of what it takes to make it themselves.

Capital has fled and continues to flee.

Vacancies have fallen to five year low, cost of hiring cited as reason. We do actually need dc to get jobs.

@Greyrock79 the departures started when Jeremy Hunt laid out plans to overhaul the non-dom system in 2024. They include Shravin Bharti Mittal, an heir of one of India’s richest families; Nassef Sawiris, an Egyptian investor; and Richard Gnodde, a veteran Goldman Sachs banker.

With respect, you have no idea.

You speak of things you have read, not lived, I suspect.

You are going to have to elaborate. I'm in my late 50s if that helps give the time frame for what I may or may not have lived.

Not entirely sure there will be many posters on here who weren't alive in 2024! ;-)

You do not work/operate around wealth.

After Reeves’s first budget in Oct 24, that’s when capital began to leave, properly. Billionaires and HNW/UHNW and simply high earners. And when they go, that means IB gets hit, and the legal sector and hospitality and investment, and deal flow gets hit. It’s a multiplier, and its real, and it continues.

No idea.

ES, I know you know how tough it is out there atm - I feel for your DC, and wish them all the best.

Labour have made the exogenous issues so much worse by their sheer stupidity and vindictiveness.

Yes they have. I meant to say I agree in the my pp to you, but editing window timed out.

@Greyrock79 what an extra-ordinary and entirely incorrect assumption to make. I am still working and have always worked. Currently based in Mayfair, the regular haunt of the very unwealthy!!!! I know only too well that the uber wealthy are entirely mobile and will go wherever the tax advantages are on offer. Their loyalty is to their money after all.

Currently based in Mayfair could mean hedge funds, PB, hospitality, retail - it tells me nothing. In addition, Mayfair is predominantly ME money come to shop during their summer etc i.e. non residents.

The loyalty of those who have gone is not just to their money but the mood music, the rhetoric, the direction of travel. Labour have squandered all of the good will the UK had, and then some.

Sadly so.

@Greyrock79 I don't owe you an explanation of my situation, but I assure you that your assumptions about me are entirely incorrect. It is also a weak move to attack someone's character rather than their argument. If you think a point is incorrectly made, please call me on it. I believe my point was factually accurate.

What goodwill? If there had been any goodwill left for the Tories or the state we were in, then Labour would not have won!

I don't believe that UHNWIs follow "mood music". To have become so wealthy, they follow hard advice and pay huge sums of money to incredibly skilled accountants who legally move their money around the globe to minimise their tax losses. If another country offers them advantages as a resident, they will go. They don't need to live anywhere, that is what their wealth buys them. They can be based anywhere.

You do tend towards the dramatic side @Greyrock79 . You have been predicting doom since Labour got in, practically. Things are tough, but there have always been tough times. You speak as though the UK is a heap of charred and smoking rubble. But as you don't live here rn you don't really know what it is like for ordinary people day to day.

You are wrong.

The money chose to live in the UK because of the - until Labour got in - non-dom rules (and IHT), the schooling, the lifestyle for spouse etc.

Labour promised to tread lightly and be pro-business/growth before going after the ‘broad shoulders’ and private schools etc. All that negativity from Reeves and Starmer.

There was a goodwill premium versus other tax jurisdictions - not anymore.

And yet when a couple want to move back Labour jump to vilification and ridiculous hyperbole. All for political survival.

Whats it like for ‘ordinary’ folk, day-to-day?

Do tell.

@Greyrock79 what is a "goodwill premium"? I haven't heard of that. If it was so great under the Tories, why had Harborne been a Thai resident for 20+ years and why had Delo been resident overseas since 2012?

@EasternStandard I don't think Labour has opposed their return to the UK. The widespread concern has been the huge amount of their donations to Reform which appear to come from overseas business interests, even if they themselves have moved back to the UK, although I have yet to see any evidence of that.

Rayner was ridiculous with the ‘sugar daddies’ line and the business secretary was not far behind with hyperbole this morning.

One of the people is an Oxford first maths grad, state school educated. A person most countries would want to attract in a flash. But no we have Labour tantrum because they feel the threat politically.

I agree. Labour through ideology rather than practical sense (as usual) attacked what made the UK attractive to these mobile high taxpayers. Taxpayers that most rational and sane countries would want to attract.

The private school attack (again for reasons of ideology rather than practical sense) is a particularly interesting one. Labour ignored the effect on SEN kids or the fact that thousands of kids would move to the state sector and be a burden on tax payers. You can sense the aim was to attack the rich. Its no good being rich and able to absorb the VAT if the schools aren't there. And so another area where the UK excels on a worldwide standard and would attract wealthy taxpayers is wrecked by the Labour ideology. And its all of the rest us that have to shoulder the burden.

That same person was convicted in the US for failing to implement adequate anti-money laundering controls at BitMex. He was sentenced to 30 months of probation and given a $10m (£7.3m) fine for violating the US Bank Secrecy Act.

He got pardoned by Trump.

What makes him attractive to countries?

Oh and this. Labour’s terrible person of the day, for their political survival. People really will kick anyone to survive, even if they’re giving millions.

The Giving Pledge: Delo became one of the youngest signatories of The Giving Pledge in 2019, vowing to distribute the vast majority of his wealth to charity during his lifetime.

Scientific Funding: He has directed over £100 million into philanthropic causes. This includes endowing the Ben Delo Fellowship at Worcester College, Oxford, and contributing £20 million to the London Institute for Mathematical Sciences (LIMS).

The widespread concern has been the huge amount of their donations to Reform which appear to come from overseas business interests, even if they themselves have moved back to the UK

If the donations had come from UK business interests would you be happy with that? If you think the reason for the concern is the fact they are from overseas business interests(allegedly).

Extraordinary this is someone Angela Rayner of all people feels morally able to criticise.