Income tax- Burnam

[Niftywigglesheep899]

Does anyone know if Andy Burnam is planning to raise income tax , so we have less money coming in each month?

Im quite concerned - stretched as it is and can’t cope with anymore.

I’m curious what business you’re in? My husband is in finance and they encourage moves between the firms. I friends in marketing, solicitors, banking and hospitality and all of them have been able to move easily. All with families. At least 1 child but the majority 2 and then us with 3.
I also think the “calling their bluff attitude can be dangerous and misses the point. Dangerous because people get used to have more disposable income and the better quality of life they have and can offer their kids and end up extending their stay (we have already committed to 2 years more than originally planned for example). And the missing the point piece - people shouldn’t have to leave a county they adore and feel at home in, to achieve what their parents did when growing up.
Whilst I agree with your “tax the wealth” approach I would hazard a guess that our definition of wealth differs greatly. Those who are leaving aren’t wealthy - yes they have money, yes they are comfortable, but the real wealth stays untouched whilst the rest of us continue to have arguments on where to define wealth.

Do you have any real world experience?
It might work for contractors and managed services to be overseas, but no UK company is employing someone in Malaga.
What about the payroll? The legal entity in Spain? The local deductions? The workplace safety and insurance?
Who would pay a UK salary to someone in Greece?

Where are these people based then? Because you are not sending your teenagers to state school in Switzerland, France, Germany etc unless they know the language.

Same with spouses continued to work, not if you don’t speak the language. Multinationals are fine for the person relocating, if they can relocate, no help to the spouse, even if they get a permit which allows them to work.

Your comments are inaccurate. I am one of the group I refer to so know all about the arrangements.

Our company has payroll in several different countries which allows a huge degree of flexibility. If you want to move to a jurisdiction where we don’t have a payroll they will look into the logistics of setting you up as a contractor although no senior exec is likely to agree to that as it removes a huge amount of job security.

It is pretty much a moot point though as the current list of payroll enabled countries is extensive enough to satisfy most people.

I agree we wouldn’t advertise a new role based in Greece offering a UK salary however the arrangements are very much about allowing well established UK based execs to have global flexibility as a means for retention.

It is a very popular policy and is well used.

It is also worth noting that not everyone has a clear base anyway. A lot of people split their time between 2 or more countries. The days of everyone being sat in the same office every day are long gone.

That would reduce tax receipts though? Like many, I would benefit from the increase, but have to wonder how the shortfall will be made up? It’s all very well saying tax banks /industry /rich people, but that layer of society knows all the loopholes that are in place. I cannot see those loopholes being closed as they are also of use to the various civil servants /MPs and their friends.

Yes, that's what I've heard. All those pledges were in the manifesto, which is one of the reasons why I voted Labour, but instead they have pulled out of these kinds of projects. We need investment in infrastructure, innovation and training. We are giving young people nothing. They are in a ton of debt if they want to go to University yet apprenticeships and the adult skills budget has fallen through the floor with not a peep from Labour. We need investment in innovation to provide quality apprenticeships. Not more people working in Amazon warehouses and data entry being topped up by UC. What do ambitious young people have for them in this country, or even adults who want to get on? I'm not sure how Labour think we are going to solve our problems long term. Even Gary Stevenson says a wealth tax will raise £40bn a year. That won't even pay for half of the NHS budget. All countries who have tried a wealth tax have abandoned it. So what is Labours plan? There was a plan in the manifesto but the Labour party don't seem interested in any of those things.

I work remotely. Our only office is in the north east and I live in the home counties. Our group HQ is in Luxembourg, the president is in Germany, the CFO is in Paris. It's not like the old ways of relocating with a company, if I or anyone else in our company wanted to move abroad we could just go.

End the triple lock. A higher tax threshold would mean fewer pensioners dragged into paying tax and losing their qualification for pension credit.

Burnham has said he will be continuing to deliver the manifesto from the last General Election. He won't be pushing theough brand new policies without an electoral mandate.

So many comfortably privileged people on this thread calling for income tax and benefit thresholds to be on the basis of household rather than individual income. That's how it used to be before womens rights came along and it was the most vulnerable children and women in precarious and abusive relationships who suffered from that situation and it took a lot of campaigning to win the right to control our own finances and keep our own money. Every time you call for thresholds to be based on household income you are calling for the weakest and most vulnerable people in society to suffer so that you can be a little richer. Please stop.

So, to balance tales of nirvana, Neighbours, cousin came back from New Zealand - cost of living problems. 2 cousins returned from US - citing cost of health care Cousins went to US, then, Hong Kong, then US, divorced wife in dire financial situation, children's education mucked up. 2 graduate friends went to Germany. Wife unable to work, subsequently divorced, she's in dire financial situation. Returned to UK with 3 children, education a mess. 2 cousins emigrated to Australia. Couldn't find good work. Came back after a year.

@ElizaMulvil My experience exactly.
I’m abroad (I won’t go into the how and why).
From my colleagues trailing spouses, 9 out of 10 don’t work.
Mostly qualified people. We had a cleaner who was a fully qualified dentist from Venezuela, not allowed to be a dentist (still better than being in Venezuela though).
Engineer from Brazil, qualifications not recognized. Marketing person, ended up after 4 years as office admin after husband got them in. Groundsman, no one would employ him as all the landscape companies use cheap French or Italians. Person with 15 years experience managing a pharmacy got 9 months work in 10 years.
Finally after 10 years my friend’s wife who was a logistics expert got a local hire. Plenty of other partners with no real qualifications just stay at home.
I have a friend relocated with a multinational to LA, wife not allowed to work, came back for kids education. Another went to Colgate in NY state, wife not allowed to work. Another to Thailand, they reduced his daily rate, wife unable to find work.

So interesting to read both sides of things, thanks for sharing, also @ElizaMulvil

This is interesting perspective- which is all good to know. But I do note that the specific examples you speak of difficulties from people who have qualifications from outside the UK. Is that the case? Because I must admit that my examples are people who are qualified either in the UK or the US and a couple from Canada. I think the language barrier can be a problem but not as before. I for example speak several languages for reasons to do with my childhood and so do my kids. We had a friend couple of ours that went to the Netherlands (not a word of Dutch) and they have been there for 5 years no worries. Their second child has now been born there and they have no intention to go back atm. One couple has moved to Virginia, US have been there 2 years. One of my best friends is now relocating to the US as well to Connecticut as her youngest is about to enter school.
One of my husbands friends that were originally living in the UK moved to Switzerland and again have been there 10 years no intention of going back. Interested to figure out why 9 out of 10 don’t work?
I’m surprised to hear @ElizaMulvil about New Zealand and Australia. Uncle in New Zealand works for BA and has been for years he’s clearly never coming back. And a friend in Australia in marketing who is the same - but this friend does not have kids.
On the other hand I do think you need a capacity of adaptability and going with the flow to make it work. From someone who has lived in several countries you can make it work even education wise - the only education I had in the UK was university and I ended up at a top university só your education doesn’t have to suffer. Maybe I have a different perspective because I have done this and have i tink I have a great anbility to adapt. And I do get it it’s not for everybody. You have to be open minded and willing for it to work. And I do miss the UK but thankfully that is sorted quickly as we are in the UK every 6 weeks 😁.

@Yogafiend in your examples, how many spouses are working? Especially the Swiss couple?
In my examples, as explained, qualifications are not recognized, but also apart from working at multi-nationals (where you are competing with the brightest across Europe) you need the local language.
When the shop workers in Aldi are bi or trilingual, the odds are against you.
And who emigrates to get a minimum wage job anyway?

It’s fair to say, when people are top level on +£200k a year, often the spouse doesn’t work regardless (and that IS the premise of the thread), but I was talking people on @ £100k or people with teenagers and IK dual incomes.

Most of the couples I know are working. Both of them. The couple in Switzerland are both working - but she works part time now as her youngest is still small. He’s an ACA qualified accountant and she’s a banker. Learned French as they went. It’s much easier to learn the language once you are in it as per my experience. I myself didn’t work the first year to settle the kids but then went back to work. Took me a little bit to find a job but that is because I had to “conversion” for a lack of better word.
I do understand you are saying that the qualifications aren’t recognised which is definitely a problem - my argument is that the people I know that have moved are qualified either in the UK and/or US and do not have that issue. And I agree people who emigrate are looking for a better quality of life overall.
With regards to people not working if spouses are on 200k + that’s really dependent on people.i think some will want to and others won’t. My husband is on more than that and I’m not prepared to stay at home full time. Because once my youngest is probably 13/14 and more independent I want to go back full time. And that’s true for most of my friends. We didn’t want to let go of our jobs.

Which countries aren’t feeling cost of living pressures? I know the UK is one of the most indebted and that we have a higher level of index linked debt so inflating our way out of it isn’t possible. It seems to me though that as the world’s population increases and a larger proportion have a higher income and therefore are more able to consume at closer to existing western levels then that is inevitably going to push up prices.

US and Aus it is very much two parents working and children go state. Friends in Switzerland and Germany are generally both parents working, but school depends on longer term plans and the nature of any expat package. Young children tend to go state, older children at time of relocation tend to go private (international schools), and it also depends on if you are on a 2-3 year secondment vs a permanent relocation. Don’t know anyone relocating to France.

Both me and my spouse are £200k+, both happily working,

we live in the uk for sentimental reasons, but could relocate quite easily - one if us has an alternative passport and kids are dual citizens. Relocation is not our first choice, but we could do so quite easily if advantageous