Andy Burnham's new cabinet - who's in, who's out.

[Twiglets1]

John Healey, who quit as Keir Starmer's defence secretary last month, has been pictured walking up Downing Street - is he about to be reinstated as Defence Secretary, I wonder.

Ed Miliband and Shabana Mahmood also photographed walking up Downing Street together - but we still don't which positions they will be given in Cabinet.

Well putting aside the sick, aged, and disabled; that leaves a good chunk of capable individuals who can work.

We need to ideally reduce benefits to these people to encourage them to work. Some may be incapable of holding down a job, in this instance a swap of labour for benefits would be worth exploring. Picking up litter, clearing drains, removing graffiti; that sort of community enrichment in return for their welfare.

Who is going to supervise such teams? Pay for PPE and equipment? Training? Councils are cash strapped as it is.

There are people already employed in minimum wage jobs clearing drains. They probably claim housing benefit because their private landlord has put the rent up for the second time this year. Most of the social housing in their area has been sold and council waiting lists are years long.

Oh gosh it will require some management and coordination so we must immediately reject it!

And are you going to pay these people minimum wage per hour?

Where are yours?

The litter pickers? No the reward for their labour is that they get their benefits paid. (Although we need to cut that down a bit because it’s currently way to generous).

So completely unethical then and potentially exploitative?

You do realise such schemes have been tried and failed?

Many studies have found that compulsory work schemes have only a small or short-lived effect on moving people into sustained employment. as mentioned earlier, If benefit claimants do work that would otherwise be done by paid employees, employers or public bodies may reduce hiring.

Supervising placements, arranging work, monitoring attendance and handling appeals can make schemes expensive as mentioned . Where is the money coming from?

People may be unemployed because of ill health, disability, caring responsibilities, lack of transport, or a shortage of local jobs. Mandatory work does not solve these underlying issues.

Time spent on compulsory work may leave less time to apply for jobs, attend interviews or gain qualifications that improve long-term prospects.
There are often reports of increased stress, poorer mental health and a feeling of being punished rather than supported, especially if sanctions are imposed for non-compliance.

Targeted support would be better such as skills training, apprenticeships, wage subsidies, childcare support and personalised job coaching. There is more evidence of this improving long-term employment than forced manual labour.

I’m not the one slagging off “benefit scroungers”. Or advocating modern slavery. I’m surprised workhouses haven’t featured yet.

‘modern slavery’ picking up litter in return for benefits.

Talk about hyperbole. 😄

1. Modern Slavery

While illegal worldwide, slavery continues to exist in various coercive forms. Modern slavery refers to situations where a person cannot refuse or leave exploitation due to threats, violence, coercion, or abuse of power. Forms of modern slavery include: Anti-Slavery International +3

• Human Trafficking: The use of force, fraud, or coercion to recruit or harbor people for labor or exploitation.
• Forced Labor: People being made to work against their will under the threat of violence or punishment.
• Debt Bondage: The most widespread form of modern slavery, occurring when people are forced to work to pay off an impossible or un-payable debt.
• Descent-based Slavery: A condition where people are born into slavery because their ancestors belonged to the enslaved class.

The centre left party Labor in Australia have kept it as a programme. If you’d like an example.

And what have been the successes?

So litter picking for benefits isn’t modern slavery then. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes it is. It’s forced labour.

It isn’t forced. If my kids don’t do their chores they don’t get their pocket money. That doesn’t make them modern slaves!

Can we stop making excuses for the feckless and lazy who grab at benefits but don’t want to do anything in return.

You are being flippant, but think how hard it can be to make one child do something they don't want to. Now imagine that you have to make an unwilling adult pick up dog crap. How much coercion would be needed? It would be an awful job for the person tasked with this.

Your idea is the epitome of forced labour. Go and pick up other people’s crap or you starve and live on the street. People forced to work under threat of punishment.

What’s wrong with working for the money you get?

No. It’s providing a service to the community. Helping create a nicer environment. One of my first jobs I was paid to pick up litter. There is great pride in making a place clean and tidy.

Sorry, but your argument is utterly wrong.

When you don’t work you run the risk to end up on the street you don’t pay your rent or your mortgage.

My argument is entirely correct. If we want people to pick up other people’s crap then we pay them minimum wage to do so. We don’t exploit them by expecting them to do it in exchange for benefits.

Don’t you want to pay back to society for what you are happy to receive?

Sad.

You seem a lovely poster, so disappointing you think working is punishment.

What difference does it make if it’s benefits (often higher) or minimum wage in return for litter picking?

Either way, if you don’t turn up for your shift, you don’t get paid; this is how it works in the real world.

Benefits aren’t often higher than minimum wage. A single person gets less than £400 a month. If we want work done we should pay minimum wage not exploit people. The difference is more than £300 a week.