Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

Jewish circumcision custom of Metzitzah B'peh

41 replies

bluestardressinggown · 21/09/2017 14:25

I have recently developed an interest in Judaism, not necessarily with a view to convert, but more in terms of finding out more about the religion, beliefs, traditions etc as my knowledge was not too great outside of kosher food, Hannukah etc. I come from a totally secular christian background but consider myself spiritual but not religious and I enjoy reading and finding out about other cultures and religions.

I bought myself some books which I have found really interesting and watching various videos on youtube. All very interesting and insightful etc. It was when watching a video on youtube that I scrolled down to the comments and there were several which I initially believed were nasty, defamatory anti semitic bile (I don't even want to repeat the content here) but eventually I find out that those comments were referring to an actual tradition called 'metzitzah b'peh' which is performed during a jewish circumcision ceremony where the person who cuts the baby's foreskin then sucks the blood using his mouth. Like I said when I first heard it I thought it must be a lie but it is actually 'a thing' albeit one that by all accounts rarely occur in most ceremonies nowadays but is still used in ultra orthodox communities.

I would say that I consider myself a very open minded, each to their own sort of person, but I literally cannot get my head around this, it seems so inappropriate on so many levels and makes me feel sick to the stomach. There have been cases of babies dying from Herpes that they have caught from the person doing the procedure not to mention of the fact that the idea of a grown man putting his mouth anywhere near a baby in that manner.

I'm sorry if this offends lots of people. But I'm just so shocked by it. Does anyone know if this is legal in this country (UK)? Just seems so wrong to me.

OP posts:
callmehannahbaker · 21/09/2017 14:35

I was actually discussing this this morning!

I pride myself on being open minded, but, like you I cannot justify this at all.

Member652554 · 21/09/2017 14:41

Sorry what ? You mean they sexually abuse the child whilst the child is on the operating table ? That sounds horrific!!! Wtf ?!!

Original poster
bluestardressinggown · 21/09/2017 15:03

WTF was exactly my reaction. Like I said, when I first heard about it, I thought it was some rubbish written in the comments section by a troll but the procedure really does exist. By all accounts it is a 3000 year old tradition, some historians believe it came about because medical knowledge was not as it is now, and that it was a way of keeping the wound clean. But of course things have moved on and there are now more hygienic and ethical ways to deal with the issue. I can't believe that I had never heard of this until a few days ago. It's made me feel quite traumatized actually.

OP posts:
Member652554 · 24/09/2017 22:28

Does this happen In this country? This sounds disgusting and something that shouldn't be allowed to happen

Fresh8008 · 26/09/2017 22:50

Male genital mutilation is abhorrent!

allthatmalarkey · 27/09/2017 10:22

You know you have an instinct to lick a wound of your own? Saliva is slightly antiseptic and has something which encourages the blood to clot and stop bleeding. 3000 years ago it would not have been as bad an idea as it is now. In that context, the blood licking is no more sexual than cleaning your child's penis when you change their nappy. The genital mutilation on the other hand.. Although I do remember seeing something about how circumcision provides protection against HIV infection. Culture and belief can be very weird. Overall, this is something people came up with when life and knowledge were very different.

CircleofWillis · 27/09/2017 17:28

I agree with allthat. This custom developed at a time when cultures were different and had no sexual connotation to it. Saliva contains compounds which has been medically proven to speed wound healing and male circumcision has many health benefits including fewer infections both for a man and his sexual partner. I wouldn't suck the blood and wouldn't want anyone to do it to my child but it is better to try to understand why a custom has developed in a different culture rather than to jump onto the mortally offended must be a paedophile bandwagon.

headinhands · 27/09/2017 17:35

Circumcision on babies for cultural/religious reasons is bad enough. Did you feel it was okay up until the point someone sucked the blood? I'm all for 'each to their own'. But religious circumcision is carried out on a human who is unable to consent so is very much about forcing your wishes upon others and not yourself. Despicable, vile, bronze aged practice.

headinhands · 27/09/2017 17:39

Of you're doing it for the child's future sex life just wait! And I will be offended because it's grotesque. There is no logical justification. Shame on people who get their children circumcised for cultural/religious reasons. Taking your tiny new born boy and slicing off part of their body because of what you think.

thethoughtfox · 27/09/2017 18:33

There were cases recently in New York where babies caught herpes from one man.

samG76 · 27/09/2017 19:43

I've been to many britot in the UK and abroad and haven't seen this done ever. Pretty sure it isn't done over here.

callmehannahbaker · 28/09/2017 00:23

I'm aware of the reasons for it having been done in the past, I only can't justify it happening still now-medical needs change. Of a decapitating hook was used during stillbirth/miscarriage now it would be abhorrent. This practice should be seen as the same.

callmehannahbaker · 28/09/2017 00:24

*if, not of

headinhands · 28/09/2017 16:02

only can't justify it happening still now-medical needs change.

None of it is justified. Just don't mutilate your new born sons.

samG76 · 28/09/2017 16:12

sorry, by "practice" are we now referring to the op itself, or metzizah, which is what the post was originally about. It seems we are descending into the usual MN "outrageous - disgusting, how could you do it" line. I think the next post should ask how anyone could go to a brit without calling police/Social Services/Daily Mail, etc etc.....

headinhands · 28/09/2017 19:21

outrageous - disgusting, how could you do it"

Yes it is. People say that because it is all those things.

SolidarityGdansk · 28/09/2017 19:27

I have been to many circumcisions and have never seen this happening and I don't know anyone who has.

I doubt very much if it is practised in the U.K.

There are about a dozen people who perform brits - you don't need many is such a small community. And I have not heard of any that do this.

bluedemilune · 28/09/2017 21:12

Whats the difference between religious circumcision and cultural circumcision then? In the west the numbers of Americans and Canadians who perform newborn circumcision - WASPs as well as atheists - absolutely dwarfs the number of jews and muslims. if you want to bring american circumcision practises to a UK discussion lets talk about all american stats on circumcision not just about minority ultra orthodox.

headinhands · 29/09/2017 07:10

if you want to bring american circumcision practises to a UK discussion lets talk about all american stats on circumcision not just about minority ultra orthodox.

It's all disgusting regardless of ethnicity/location/religion.

Fresh8008 · 29/09/2017 17:29

American, Jewish or Muslim circumcision, it doesn't matter. Its all equally child abuse.

DaisysStew · 29/09/2017 17:39

I've only heard of this in the last few weeks (this specific practice not circumcision) due to the concern over the amount of babies contracting genital herpes as a result of it. I was shocked that this was still allowed and I hope that given the recent publicity steps are being taken to ban it.

TiesThatBindMe · 29/09/2017 17:53

What a bizarre practice. Circumcision is a bit mental too to be honest.

FanDabbyFloozy · 29/09/2017 18:01

By screaming that all circumcision is wrong, the middle class cult of Mumsnet loses many people immediately - even moderate Jews and Muslims circumcise their boys. There will be no proper discussion around this until people can engage in real debate and start listening as much as talking.

The blood sucking thing is gross and I have NEVER heard it practised.

Ttbb · 29/09/2017 18:08

I know, it's bad enough that you're mutilating the child right?

bluedemilune · 29/09/2017 18:10

and notwithstanding all the white anglos of liberal democratic cultures across the big pond who do male circumcision on their baby boys.... I wouldnt use such terms as disgusting or bizarre about it. theres a big public health drive in africa to get MORE men and boys to do circumcision as a preventative measure against HIV. thats the World Health Organisation leading that drive, since 2012, and its takeup is being actively encouraged all over sub saharan africa. and its based on really sound research about its effectiveness in reducing HIV rates separate to condom usage. an ancient practise to deal with a very modern problem. and circumcision is very helpful to those rural communities which might not have supplies of condoms available or even be able to afford them.