Jewish circumcision custom of Metzitzah B'peh

[bluestardressinggown]

I have recently developed an interest in Judaism, not necessarily with a view to convert, but more in terms of finding out more about the religion, beliefs, traditions etc as my knowledge was not too great outside of kosher food, Hannukah etc. I come from a totally secular christian background but consider myself spiritual but not religious and I enjoy reading and finding out about other cultures and religions.

I bought myself some books which I have found really interesting and watching various videos on youtube. All very interesting and insightful etc. It was when watching a video on youtube that I scrolled down to the comments and there were several which I initially believed were nasty, defamatory anti semitic bile (I don't even want to repeat the content here) but eventually I find out that those comments were referring to an actual tradition called 'metzitzah b'peh' which is performed during a jewish circumcision ceremony where the person who cuts the baby's foreskin then sucks the blood using his mouth. Like I said when I first heard it I thought it must be a lie but it is actually 'a thing' albeit one that by all accounts rarely occur in most ceremonies nowadays but is still used in ultra orthodox communities.

I would say that I consider myself a very open minded, each to their own sort of person, but I literally cannot get my head around this, it seems so inappropriate on so many levels and makes me feel sick to the stomach. There have been cases of babies dying from Herpes that they have caught from the person doing the procedure not to mention of the fact that the idea of a grown man putting his mouth anywhere near a baby in that manner.

I'm sorry if this offends lots of people. But I'm just so shocked by it. Does anyone know if this is legal in this country (UK)? Just seems so wrong to me.

Leaving aside circumcision itself...

This practice is out dated, unhygienic and unnecessary.

However it is not a sexual perversion or anything else except ridiculously old fashioned and slightly dangerous. It tends to happen in very fundamentalist groups, who are not particularly interested in modern social and medical opinions.

You can disagree with it and campaign against it, but don't accuse practitioners of anything except extreme traditionalism and perhaps ignorance.

but its interesting that of all the different peoples around the world that practise circumcision its always the jews that get held up in any propaganda by anti circumcisers as the example of its barbarism. theres been reasonable explanations of why this ultra minority tradition was initially done. the misunderstanding of this practise was why the jews were persecuted through the middle ages and beyond for using the blood of babies in their religious rituals. theres loads of ways to argue against circumcision without invoking that old blood libel imagery and stereotype.

Would someone mind explaining why you get your babies circumcised and what happens if you refuse? Thank you.

and start listening as much as talking.

I've listened. That's how I know it's despicable.

Vitalogy - no one is obliged to do it, but parents do it because they want their kids to be Jewish. In the real world, in contrast to the MN world, there are no practising Jews who don't do it.....

Thanks for answering. What would happen with regards to the reaction of family or other community members if you decided not to go ahead with the practice? Would you be ostracised.

no. We would not be ostriocised. Because why would anyone know?

Some people opt for a private ceremony with just parents and mohel. So who would know if you did it or not?

I have never been asked if my boys were done. Never comes up in conversation.

And I if I did know about another family - I would find it odd. But I would not care in the slightest.

having said that, when my husband told friends and colleagues about the boys Brit - it seemed that all his none Jewish friends and colleagues who had been circumcised for a variety of reasons felt the need to tell us.

I now know the status of all our male friends which is a bit

Gdansk - this is a difference between Mumsnet and RL, isn't it:

RL visitor - congrats on your new son. I suppose you'll be doing a brit - my brother was circumcised. He's quite happy about it.

MN poster - you evil mutilator! how dare you! I hate everyone who does this! your son will hate you forever. I know nothing about Judaism, but read about a family on the internet who are Jewish but didn't have a brit, so why should you? [rant] [rave]....

I hate the idea of this particular practice, and doubt it is carried out in the UK.

I agree with whoever upthread said that we lose a lot of people if you start banging on about how its always wrong, because Jews and Muslims ALL routinely do it. I have friends of both religions who have had their children done, and since its an important part of their religion, I keep my beak out. There are lots of things in all religions that I wouldnt be able to get my head round as an atheist/agnostic so I dont even try to.

I don't give a shit how many people do it, it is wrong.

There are lots of things in all religions that I wouldnt be able to get my head round

It's the most invasive, non reversible, widespread religious practise though.
I thought this was very interesting:

www.jewishcircumcision.org/spectator.htm

Many Muslims never question whether this ritual has any basis in scripture (i.e. the Quran) or whether it is documented in early Islam practice. Instead, they blindly follow the traditions of their forefathers without rational thought, evidence or analysis subjecting their new born children to a part mutilation of their genitalia.
This was from the website below:

www.quransmessage.com/articles/circumcision%20FM3.htm

*It just takes individuals to make a stand and use their common sense.

Vitalogy - you might have found the articles interesting, but it's written very much from a therapist's point of view, and while he claims to know something about Judaism, my 10 year old son could rebut his arguments so far as they relate to Jewish law.

Sounds like someone from your own community making a stand, I'm sure he's had a lot of abuse for it too. I should imagine it's like the elephant in the room. No one wants to address or face the subject, I bet the negatives are never discussed between family and friends.
In this day and age there aren't any positives. Whether it's Jewish law or not, laws and rules are allowed to be questioned and discussed. Especially outdated and barbaric practices, because lets not dress this up as anything other than what it is.
Like I said before, it takes putting ones ego aside, courage and common sense. I leave it at that. Best wishes.