DS11 threatens suicide

[SpinningPlates4eva]

Hi all. I’m really struggling to know how to deal
with my son, and would appreciate any advice from anyone who’s experienced something similar.

DS11 has always been quite emotional, sometimes mean and very opinionated. He never had many friends during primary school, other than a few girls that he got along well with. He was bright, sporty, funny and quite mature for his age, and a lot of the time he was friendly and genuine. But sometimes he couldn’t tolerate people easily, so he struggled to maintain friendships as he could be really, embarrassingly, unkind. I had lots of meetings with the school and made lots of apologies to parents.

All attempts at sanctions / punishments / consequences made no difference as he seemed to lack any impulse control so would be unkind and then say oops afterwards.

In years 5 & 6 he suffered a lot with anxiety because of his lack of friendships, and because the few boys in his class had started to sneakily bully him without the teachers seeing. DS would inevitably react and then get into trouble so he spent a lot of time in break time detention, which he actually liked as it meant he wasn’t sitting alone at break or lunch. But because he’d been labelled the naughty boy, the school had no interest in helping deal with his emotional needs.

I paid for private therapy sessions, which seemed to do more harm than good as he felt he was being labelled a problem child and the therapist talked to him like he was a little boy, which he found annoying and patronising.

Since starting high school he’s developed a lovely large group of friends, boys who are very much on the same level as him and seem to think the world of him. He’s discovered that he’s very good at rugby so now plays for a local team. He’s started going to the gym with his friends. He’s not struggling in lessons, and the teachers like him. He’s even got a girlfriend. He seems really happy and confident, and it’s wonderful to see after 3 years of being deeply unhappy with no support from the school, and feeling utterly helpless.

Yet despite these positive changes in his life, he still gets very low when he’s at home. Says he’s still got depression, believes no one likes him, thinks he’s ugly, and believes I’d be happier without him as he’s such a horrible kid.
He has admitted that he’s tried to take his life 15 times now, but I really can’t see how he could have as he has no access to anything unsafe.

I’ve tried to talk to him about this, I’ve said we are going to see a GP, the high school are being really supportive and have a SEN person ready to talk to him, but he’s refusing to see anyone or speak to anyone. I’ve suggested meds to lift his low mood, he doesn’t want that either. I’ve suggested an ADHD assessment, no way.

I do nag him, I shout at him when he refuses to get up for school, I tell him off for swearing, I punish him for bad behaviour. But I also tell him I love him every day, I bend over backwards for him, I cook his favourite meals, I take him wherever he needs to go, I give him as much freedom as I can, I’m always encouraging conversations, we laugh together, we snuggle up & watch movies together, we have a good relationship and he does tell me a lot.

Sorry for such a long post but I feel that just saying “my kid says he’s tried to kill himself 15 times” with no back story or context, you’d all just tell me to go to the GP. But it’s not that simple, is it…

Any thoughts on what’s going on in his little mind? Anyone had similar behaviours from their kids? I just don’t know what to make of it all, and I’m scared.

I was wondering about the phone/internet thing too as for an 11yo to say “I have depression” seems unusual.

you must be so worried. If there is something with his brain chemistry that is causing him to feel very low then you need to do all you can to get treatment for that. But it is very difficult if he won’t engage. I have a daughter who’s a little similar but in her case it’s very very hormone related and the episodes are timed almost exactly to the month and occur in the few days before her period. She started early at 10 and is very affected by hormones.

Could therapy help worhh another go with someone different? Art therapy?
it’s so good he has friends now but his primary school experiences might be staying with him
and still affecting his self esteem a lot.

All the parents of young people I know who have killed themselves had no knowledge of previous attempts and actually thought things were better. Sometimes other people knew but didn't speak up. There is a lot of online encouragement for suicide if you are unfortunate to find it and have an interest in that direction.

Je doesn't need snap and tick tok to be connected.

He's also had an unsettling experience with seeing/not seeing his dad. He's becoming a teenager and probably wondering where he fits in the world.

To be honest I'd keep a close eye but do nothing. Stop pandering to the drama and see what happens.

Sometimes making a big deal out of something makes things worse. Be low level and relaxed about it all and give it a year. There's a lot of "understanding" now about things like rejection sensitivity, trauma etc and I think we place a trait on a child which they possibly would have learnt how to deal with by just growing up as bit.

The school are fully aware of what’s been going on, and I’m having almost daily emails and phone calls with them. His teachers all know and have instructions to monitor his time away from class if he goes to the toilet etc. He’s also watched during break times. The school have said he’s always happy at school and if he does have a detention he sits with pastoral and they have good conversations with him.

Ive honestly scrutinised his SM history, I also get emails relating to his content to show the kind of stuff that’s in his algorithms as his logins use my email address. I see nothing dark, nothing about being depressed it’s all just weird / boring stuff related to gaming, pranks, sport, funnies etc.
The suicide stuff comes from certain girls from school that he talks to on WhatsApp, they’re also talking about committing and have photos of razor blades etc. They encourage each other!! I’ve forbidden DS from direct messaging them anymore, but it’s hard to stop all contact when they’re all in the same peer group and in the same WhatsApp groups.

So I just have to keep casually bringing it into
conversation and not make it a big drama as that’s what the girls all do. He maybe wants me to cry, but I know that’ll enable more of the same.

I have no doubts that his situation with his bio father has affected him. He was angry for a while, and really struggled to compute it all. I tried my best to work through it with him and he did really seem to be ok, especially once he’d taken control of the situation and made the decision to stop contact.
The bullies at his old school found out about it all however, and used that as a stick to beat him with. They called me his “tinder date mum” and said how no man wants me or him. They also said how much they love being with their dad and how shit it must be to not have one. The day they said all that he punched one of them in the face and smashed another one’s head off a coat peg. And quite frankly I didn’t blame him.

The GP was supposed to call me earlier this week, and my DS agreed that he would speak on the call. The call never came. I’m going to try talking more over the weekend, we have a couple of long car journeys to make so that’s always a good opportunity to chat. If he’s still ok with a GP call then I’ll try again on Monday.

The school have said he’s always happy at school and if he does have a detention he sits with pastoral and they have good conversations with him

The suicide stuff comes from certain girls from school that he talks to on WhatsApp, they’re also talking about committing and have photos of razor blades etc. They encourage each other!! I’ve forbidden DS from direct messaging them anymore, but it’s hard to stop all contact

Of course.

He doesn’t need a GP appointment. You are offloading your parental responsibilities onto already overwhelmed GPs and school staff, because you don’t want to take tough action as a parent and ban the ‘socials’ that are clearly putting this shit in his head. He’s not depressed, he has a parent who won’t protect him from things that are trying to get inside his head.

I despair.

If this is a real scenario, I'd consider peer influence and my own blind spots regarding my child.

11 year old (although I assumed Year 11 first), with a history of being impulsive, emotional, opinionated as well as social problems, hanging out with 13-14 year olds, having free access to SM and going to gym as a way of socialising with older peers as well as having girlfriend are kind of red flags for me.

If anything, things magically getting better at this point when nothimg else worked before would make me question what is really going on.

AMEN

He’s got far too much freedom for an 11 year old and he’s hanging around with older kids trying to fit in.

The last thing I want to do is “offload” on to doctors and teachers. I’m made to feel irresponsible for not telling professionals, then guilty for burdening them. I’m a lone parent, no partner, disabled mum, trying to run two businesses. Life is full on and I’m trying my best.
if I removed Snapchat & TikTok, he would be the only kid without it. As a previous poster mentioned, taking that away can exacerbate already fragile self esteem & wellbeing, as they’re being excluded from everything their friends are sharing. I hate SM, I would love it to be taken away by law, but to try and tackle this alone would be very difficult, and potentially damaging.
He’s only had Snapchat and TikTok since August. Before that it was Roblox. He’s suffered with depression symptoms since he was 8. There’s more at play here than SM.

Too much freedom? I’ve maybe given the wrong impression here.

An hour after high school with his friends, where a few of the kids’ older siblings also hang out, and then I pick him up.
The gym is in the school and is fully supervised, they get a hour after school there and it has to be pre-booked, and again I pick him up afterwards.
I might allow him a few hours to knock about on his bike with his friends at the weekend, and Sundays are spent at rugby then having a family dinner with his grandparents.
The trip to the mall with his “girlfriend” is yet to happen, and if they did go I’d be there lurking in the background!

He can’t / won’t say. I’ve checked his body whilst he sleeps and there’s no signs of self harm anywhere. I search his room, pockets, school bag for anything that could be used as a tool to cause harm but find nothing. I really don’t know what to believe as he says things, then plays it all down, then says he lied then says he did attempt… we are just going round and round which is why I’m at a loss as to what to do. I’m terrified to go the shops and leave him at home, so I end up calling him and keep him on the phone whilst I’m walking the aisles so that I know he’s not doing anything bad.

Depression because he’s been online for years and mollycoddled. No primary aged kid needs Roblox (which FYI is a platform used by paedophiles). He needs minimal screens, maximum outdoor time, and to be developing incremental independence in and outside the home.

Look, there’s nothing more I can say. A lengthy wait for CAMHS, some kind of diagnosis and endless problems with social media and screen addition with probably school refusal at some point awaits. I can only wish you luck.

Not just physical freedom but online freedom, and then treating him like he’s older. Having a ‘girlfriend’ at age 11 is wrong. Have friends that are girls of course but don’t label it as something it’s not.

Some schools these days have their own counsellors as the waits through CAHMs are so bad. Maybe speak to school?

the group that seem to be encouraging each other to self harm is not good. I do think that this is something you need to address as it’s not a good environment full stop.

you can’t be sure in this situation whether he is self harming or not but either way getting him out of that group is important.

He's 11, I'd take his phone off of him.

'The suicide stuff comes from certain girls from school that he talks to on WhatsApp, they’re also talking about committing and have photos of razor blades etc. They encourage each other!! I’ve forbidden DS from direct messaging them anymore, but it’s hard to stop all contact when they’re all in the same peer group and in the same WhatsApp groups.'

You need to report it to school ASAP as it is a significant safeguarding issue for your son as well as for others.

He's copying people trying to fit in with someone in new school. With his history, it means he's very vulnerable to influence, not that he's better.

It seems like there is a lot going on with your son and it must be very difficult for you both .

Starting secondary school can be a challenging time with puberty , friendship groups and the move from a more familiar primary school. In addition neuro development disorders such as autism / ADHD can also be flagged up .

Your immediate pressing concern is obviously the issues around suicide and self harm for your son . Can you check what suicide prevent charities are in your area and the help / support they can provide for your son? Some will have an app that can be put on a phone with all the contact details / helpline available . They will hopefully have support that is tailored around your son’s age .

I can fully see the benefits of removing a phone in certain circumstances .
That is especially so re access to unhealthy / dangerous social media and maintaining contact for your son with the girls who are self harming . As others have said this is an urgent safe guarding concern and you must ensure that this is raised with the school and that it is kept as an urgent matter .

However I would caution against automatically removing the phone from your son . He may well see this as a punishment and his mental health may spiral further . For children of his age and older their phones are also a means where they interact and socialise with their peers . I note that for your son this interaction is at times very damaging . I am not suggesting that you definitely shouldn’t remove his phone , but that this is something you need to weigh up carefully . Your immediate concern is to protect him and ensure that if he does keep his phone that he doesn’t access any harmful content .

I think it is positive that your son is confiding in you as he fully trusts you . You have to keep these lines of communication open with him and that he can talk to you and others - this can include counselling at school etc about his mental health .

I hope that you and your son can get the help and support you need x

Wheres his dad?

Next time he mentions suicide, put him in the car and go to A&E.

All talk of suicide should be taken as truth and dealt with as an immediate priority.

The posters suggesting OP restrict his current social media access, and his real life freedom (such as being allowed to go to the gym with friends) are not considering the impact of this on an already depressed teen who has struggled with friendships in the past.

If she acts in a way which makes it harder for him to pursue friendships, it is likely to exacerbate his depression and feelings of isolation.

Young people suffered from depression before social media was invented, and removing it is not the silver bullet it is sometimes portrayed to be. It's more complex than that.

It's like banning the park, because people are sometimes bullied and attacked at the park, and people sometimes discuss inappropriate things down the park. These are not good reasons to ban a child going to the park, but they might be a reason to spend more time educating him or her in park safety ....