DS11 threatens suicide

[SpinningPlates4eva]

Hi all. I’m really struggling to know how to deal
with my son, and would appreciate any advice from anyone who’s experienced something similar.

DS11 has always been quite emotional, sometimes mean and very opinionated. He never had many friends during primary school, other than a few girls that he got along well with. He was bright, sporty, funny and quite mature for his age, and a lot of the time he was friendly and genuine. But sometimes he couldn’t tolerate people easily, so he struggled to maintain friendships as he could be really, embarrassingly, unkind. I had lots of meetings with the school and made lots of apologies to parents.

All attempts at sanctions / punishments / consequences made no difference as he seemed to lack any impulse control so would be unkind and then say oops afterwards.

In years 5 & 6 he suffered a lot with anxiety because of his lack of friendships, and because the few boys in his class had started to sneakily bully him without the teachers seeing. DS would inevitably react and then get into trouble so he spent a lot of time in break time detention, which he actually liked as it meant he wasn’t sitting alone at break or lunch. But because he’d been labelled the naughty boy, the school had no interest in helping deal with his emotional needs.

I paid for private therapy sessions, which seemed to do more harm than good as he felt he was being labelled a problem child and the therapist talked to him like he was a little boy, which he found annoying and patronising.

Since starting high school he’s developed a lovely large group of friends, boys who are very much on the same level as him and seem to think the world of him. He’s discovered that he’s very good at rugby so now plays for a local team. He’s started going to the gym with his friends. He’s not struggling in lessons, and the teachers like him. He’s even got a girlfriend. He seems really happy and confident, and it’s wonderful to see after 3 years of being deeply unhappy with no support from the school, and feeling utterly helpless.

Yet despite these positive changes in his life, he still gets very low when he’s at home. Says he’s still got depression, believes no one likes him, thinks he’s ugly, and believes I’d be happier without him as he’s such a horrible kid.
He has admitted that he’s tried to take his life 15 times now, but I really can’t see how he could have as he has no access to anything unsafe.

I’ve tried to talk to him about this, I’ve said we are going to see a GP, the high school are being really supportive and have a SEN person ready to talk to him, but he’s refusing to see anyone or speak to anyone. I’ve suggested meds to lift his low mood, he doesn’t want that either. I’ve suggested an ADHD assessment, no way.

I do nag him, I shout at him when he refuses to get up for school, I tell him off for swearing, I punish him for bad behaviour. But I also tell him I love him every day, I bend over backwards for him, I cook his favourite meals, I take him wherever he needs to go, I give him as much freedom as I can, I’m always encouraging conversations, we laugh together, we snuggle up & watch movies together, we have a good relationship and he does tell me a lot.

Sorry for such a long post but I feel that just saying “my kid says he’s tried to kill himself 15 times” with no back story or context, you’d all just tell me to go to the GP. But it’s not that simple, is it…

Any thoughts on what’s going on in his little mind? Anyone had similar behaviours from their kids? I just don’t know what to make of it all, and I’m scared.

Someone has been binging adolescence and decided it applies to an 11yo child. Life does not match drama shows.

No one should be gambling the life of a child on their armchair psychiatry skills.

The best advice is to get the child to the professionals.

Yep it is :)

When my son was that age, 11-13 (sectioned later in his teens, tried to play victim but was released without a diagnosis, I will say that isuspected autism and ODD which the professionals dismissed despite me being the only one who saw his day to day presentation prior to hospital..), he used to paint tissues and cotton pads red with paint to leave around the house to guilt trip me. Of course it was obvious that it usually wasnt actual.blood but in retrospect it was rather calculated and manipulative for a child of his age. Not saying ops son is the same but its not always the child.

He claimed he tried to end his life 10 times..one of the times he claimed he tried to hang himself weeks ago. I found a rope in his room soon after and took it away but it was still in its packaging, not opened whatsoever. He clearly didn't even bother opening it. Everyone's child is different.some children tell the truth, some lie.

This.

To clarify, weeks before he told me at the time. Its been a few years since all of this

Too much for an eleven year old to deal with.
A girlfriend.
Going out with friends.
Highs, extreme extrovert and lows at home.
Please involve professional medical assessment. Is he bipolar? Etc.etc.
Does he ever just chill at home, reading, lego, playing with dog?
Does he have supervised and limited internet?

I think all talk of suicide needs to be taken seriously. You just can't risk he might really do it if you just ignore it. I'd book him in for appointment with his GP. I'd go with him and tell GP what you have said here. I agree he probably needs some meds to lift his mood. He could try it and see if it helps rather than dismiss it out of hand.

I would push for an ASD assessment, if you haven’t already had this? CAHMS might also be able to help with the low moods?

Maybe it was manipulative but I'd still be dragging them off to face the consequences of their threat every time. Hopefully they learn not to be manipulative. At least, if they are serious, you can't regret not acting.

But there are no consequences, just a lot of adults paying him attention which he seems to want. He’ll then become entrenched in the identity of ‘CAMHS kid’ and it’ll all unravel from there. I don’t think all this introspection is actually good for them unless actually needed. I don’t think it is here, I think OP has spoiled him a bit and he’s a little unpleasant. I would Be careful he doesn’t attempt to manipulate the girlfriend

He claimed he tried to end his life 10 times..one of the times he claimed he tried to hang himself weeks ago. I found a rope in his room soon after and took it away but it was still in its packaging, not opened whatsoever. He clearly didn't even bother opening it. Everyone's child is different.some children tell the truth, some lie.

I am not sure I would class planning suicide to include buying the suicide weapon as lying about attempting suicide. I do not know where the line is but I think it is intent + plan + done some of the steps to carry out the plan.

I had an employee whose psychiatrist had classed walking to a bridge with intent as an attempt even though they did nothing when they got there except cry and go back home.

Going through the whole process could be seen as a consequence. If he's lucky, he'll find the right person somewhere in the process that can turn things around. He's clearly in serious distress whether his threats are serious or not.

One of my teen DD's boyfriends threatened to harm himself. She came to me for advice as she wasn't sure how to handle it. Was he serious? It doesn't matter. What I advised her was that she had to do what she could live with if he did follow through. She acted appropriately (he was mad about it but too bad) and he did end up getting some help.

I am a bit concerned that your view on CAMHS intervention keeping your? Greencup? Op?child from suicide that he was just attention seeking and did not really need the help.

I agree. Especially after finding he'd obtained means. That's a huge red flag.

The lying, if that’s what it is, is still showing something is wrong though.

Take it seriously. Remove his social media access, any tablets, internet.

Recent child suicides are almost always related to social media bullying and access to suicide promoting content online.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6791504/

Sorry but that's not true. Unless the attempt is somewhat 'successful', the parents don't know. My dd attempted 5 that I know of, months after the fact when she told me. God knows how many there actually are in her case. So yes the op knows about 15 but there may be many many more

Thanks everyone for your advice and thoughts, it’s been really helpful reading through it all. Sorry for the late reply, DS wanted a movie night and we fell asleep watching a movie in bed, which I think he loved as he was very relaxed and happy.

To answer some points raised:
Yes he is only 11. He’s an August kid but is in high school so has friends who are 12, 13 and 14 years old.
As he has been so isolated with no social life for so long, I do allow him time to hang out with his friends to try and nurture his friendships. (Boys don’t tend to go to each others houses where we live.) This only happens after school around the local shop & play park, and I pick him up around 5pm.
By “girlfriend” I meant it in the way an 11 year old would mean it; they see each other at school, talk on the phone, and have asked to go to the mall and get lunch together.
He doesn’t walk to or from school, I always pick him up / drop him off. We live in a semi-rural village so there’s no motorways etc.
He has internet, Snapchat and TikTok as this is how he stays connected to friends. I have all the parental controls set up, the usual restrictions etc so he can’t access too much content. I check his history a lot, nothing alarming ever comes up, and I always check his chats, which is how I found out about his suicide threats originally. Internet goes off well before bedtime.
I tried to drag him to the GP the first time this happened, and I tried again this week but he outright refuses. Hes also shut down any conversation with the mental health person at the school. This is why I’m struggling to know what to do next, as pushing him to talk / seek help seems to make him worse / not want to share his feelings with me and hide more.
I do think this is a cry for help, him admitting there’s some deep unhappiness, him not knowing how to cope with whatever he’s feeling, rather than a determination to end his life, but as you’ve said, that assumption is not worth risking.
I think there is some masking / performance going on and he’s crashing when he gets home. He loves being at home but that’s when his anxiety starts as he panics if he doesn’t get responses from his friends. That’s the rejection sensitivity kicking in.
He definitely isn’t being bullied anymore, but as he’s quite a big character at school I think he has to deal with some challenging attention from other boys which will undoubtedly have an impact on his emotional state. High school is a huge jump from the little primary school he was at, and although he enjoys it I think it’s a lot to cope with.
I want to help him but he doesn’t want the help that I’m offering or suggesting, so I dont know how to shift my approach into something he does respond well to. Whether that’s altering his perception of suicide (I’ve tried to make him understand the true finality of death), helping him find ways of changing his coping mechanisms, or helping him to accept medication / therapy / professional support.

Oh and there’s no dad/BF/father figure in his life. His BF walked away before he was born and offered no support. He got back in touch 2 years ago, I managed a very slow and careful introduction, and was never negative about his BF as I really wanted him to have a father son relationship. They eventually had a few months of face to face interaction, it started out well but DS became resentful and didn’t warm to his BF at all. I didn’t push it, I allowed DS to decide what he wanted and he ceased contact. I reassured him the door would always be open to reconnect with his BF if he wanted to. I’m a lone parent so it’s just me.

Oh come on OP the social media is directly linked to his mental state and yet you still allow it? It’s illegal for a reason. I despair, I really do. Every time I read these posts there it is - ‘yes they do have social media… I think it helps them… it makes them anxious when people don’t reply… I found suicide threats on it’.

the OP then always seems to think the social media is ancillary to the poor MH, never making that direct connection despite hard evidence it causes poor MH in teenagers.

You need to cut the social media, stop allowing him to get stuck in this spiral of online introspection.

I thought it must have been a typo for year 11.

OP, can you call 111 and start reporting when he is crashing? They might eventually send a crisis team to the house so a psychologist can talk to him at home. It is very much an autism trait to want to hide in a shell, avoid going anywhere out of the house and into situations where you do not know the social rules (ie GP to divulge suicidal ideation) when you feel very down.

Could it be to do with sexuality ? Maybe you could gently try and talk gently to him about that

but vid certainly taken him times or a and e or try crisis team
wouldn’t not take it seriously
i also agree with others trying to pull him closer at this age could help like brain storm with him thjngs he like you two to do together like a holiday fishing jigsaws crafts whatever really but so you can sepndnskmenrelaly good time together a he’s so young still really
good luck op
reach out for support xx

It is a push and pull. Yes SM when there is bullying causes poor MH. But similarly, when it is used to access a wider support network of friends it can be really helpful. Often taking away all access to SM and friends can then result in real life bullying at school for being that kid with the strict parents. Which means he would lose most if not all his friends and feel even worse.

If he did not have his access to his friends, then instead of confessing he felt suicidal to a safe person, he could have just gone ahead with his plan. OP is taking all the steps to ensure SM is not harming him.

I think the meeting his bio father two years ago and not liking who his father is has had a deep impact on him and should be explored. It could be double hit of rejection sensitivity AND abandonment fears stemming from his bio father abandoning him and not caring about him.

My dc attempted when a teen.

it is surprisingly common. She was struggling socially.

parents do not always know. I didn’t know.

I’d suggest trying to listen to him. He’s very very unhappy for whatever reason. Young teens do struggle to talk to counsellors - mine was so afraid of unknown strangers she wanted me in there.

let school know. They may be able to put adjustments in place.