How do we handle difficult visits with overprotective in-laws and their children?

[DependableBadger]

NC for this as I don't want this linked to my usual account.
I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with my BIL and SIL's (DW's side) parenting style, because I'm increasingly finding visits with them really difficult.
They have 2 DC, aged 18 months and 4. I have 2 DS, 9 and 7, so we're obviously at very different stages of parenting. I completely accept that everyone parents differently, and I'm not claiming that my way is necessarily right. But I am really struggling with how they parent and, more importantly, the effect it has on family visits.
They hover over their DC constantly. There is almost no conversation that doesn't revolve around the children. They regularly talk about how hard everything is and how they can't do anything because of the DC. I do sometimes find myself thinking that perhaps they could actually do more if they weren't constantly intervening/monitoring every little thing the children do.
A recent example really brought it home to me. I took the 4yo out with my two DS to the park. SIL said he couldn't scoot because it was "too hilly" (it really wasn't). He then decided the slide was too high. He had a tantrum when he didn't get his way - lots of crying, although IMO it was more the "performative" sort of crying rather than him actually being distressed.
I found him incredibly difficult to deal with, but if I'm honest I was more frustrated by the fact that I felt his parents had created this situation by constantly doing everything for him and removing any opportunity for him to manage himself, take a small risk, get frustrated etc.
And I know I'm probably being unreasonable here, but I find his behaviour quite difficult to like. He is very petulant and seems to expect adults to accommodate him constantly. My DS were basically getting on with things and he seemed unable to cope with anything that wasn't exactly what he wanted.
They also stayed with us recently. Again, because they are constantly "watching" the DC, they didn't really do anything to help out. We cooked, provided everything, cleared up etc. while they were essentially focused on their children. I appreciate having young children is exhausting, but it can feel like we're providing a hotel service while they supervise their own DC.
Apparently I was visibly grumpy when they left. I genuinely wasn't trying to be, but DW said I'd clearly been annoyed with BIL and SIL. And I probably was, although I didn't consciously intend to show it.
The problem is that I don't actually want to fall out with them. They're family, and they're DW's family. The last thing I want is for DW to feel caught in the middle. She's also very reluctant to say anything because she thinks you should never criticise someone else's parenting.
But I'm increasingly wondering how we're supposed to handle this. I don't want to tell them how to raise their children. That's not my place. At the same time, their parenting choices are starting to affect us when we're together, particularly when their DC are with our DC.
I suppose my biggest concern is that I think they're so risk-averse and interventionist that their DC aren't being given the chance to develop independence. I wouldn't call it abuse or anything like that, but I do sometimes wonder whether constantly preventing a child from experiencing frustration, manageable risk and doing things for themselves is actually a form of neglect in its own way.
Maybe I'm completely out of order here and need to wind my neck in. I have obviously become used to parenting my own two in a completely different way, and perhaps I'm just finding the contrast irritating.
So, MN, AIBU? How would you deal with this?
Do you just accept that this is their parenting style and say nothing? Do you limit visits/staying over? Or is there a way of setting some boundaries without effectively saying "we think you're crap parents"?
I really don't want DW caught in the middle, and I don't want a family row. I just need to work out how to stop myself getting increasingly irritated every time we're together.

I had this with my best friend from high school when we reconnected after a 12 year break. My youngest dd was 8 months younger than her pfb son. She came to my house and my 15 month old was scooting up and down the stairs and she nearly had a meltdown panic attack at the thought of her son doing the same despite being older. She was terrified of him being hurt and it being her fault . She couldn’t believe I didn’t feed my dd like a baby bird with a spoon and chooo choo noises etc. By the third drink on the second visit her son was doing everything my dd was doing and he only improved from there. ( my DH was with us watching the kids, is not like we were drinking and there was no sober adult to supervise etc). Very glad to say that our kids are now 18/19 and both very independent and capable.

But to get there I just let her hover and didn’t stand with her. I sat down and drunk my drink and ate my food. I didn’t judge her, I just dropped the rope and kind of led by example. If is have said “a do X” and she said out was unsafe for her kid, I’d have done it anyway as is already raised 3 babies and knew what I was doing. But she came around quickly and we ended up doing rock climbing, water sports etc and the kids loved it.

I suppose my biggest concern is that I think they're so risk-averse and interventionist that their DC aren't being given the chance to develop independence. I wouldn't call it abuse or anything like that, but I do sometimes wonder whether constantly preventing a child from experiencing frustration, manageable risk and doing things for themselves is actually a form of neglect in its own way.

I really don’t see how this affects you or your children though. You’re framing all this as though it’s impacting you but it’s really not. 4 & 18 months are young enough that they generally do need constant supervision, particularly together and in new environments
Your children are quite a bit older and I feel like this is just a case of poor memory.

Calling this neglect is really, really over reaching.

They are much younger than your kids.
You can’t say anything without offending them and causing a rift.
Just bite your tongue.

I wouldn't have them stay till the children are older or i would go out more and leave your wife to it tob3 perfectly honest, it easy for people to say theot parenting doesn't affect you bit i would find all this too exhausting you be perfectly honest to be around people like that and especially the poor children

If we had to do it all there is no point them visiting

Them staying in your house whilst you wait on them and they can’t lift a finger as they are only able to parent their kids does seem annoying! Can you just meet up and see them for the day somewhere?

You find their parenting style annoying and wrong but they are family and not harming you. Your children are much older so it will be hard to keep them all happy when you go out. Talk to DW about limiting their visits to what you can manage, or go to them if it's easier,

I understand your frustration but I also think you’re being a bit unfair (actually very unfair - hovering over an 18m old in a new environment is in no way ‘neglectful’!!). You’re saying things like he was doing x but your children were doing y. But they’re not even remotely comparable because of the age differences.
you said something about a slide and then a tantrum about not getting his own way, are they related, what exactly was his ‘own way’ that he wanted?

I suppose you also don’t know what he is capable of or why the parents are reacting as they do. Maybe they’re stressed, exhausted, dealing with anxiety and really struggling. All the telling you how hard it is may be a cry for help, do they have any support? Or maybe they’re stressed and have found the best way to parent their dc. I have a friend who seems to ‘pander’ to her dc, and another who is judged often for ‘gentle’ parenting but actually the children really do much better, join in more, learn more, try more things etc when they are parented that way. But when things go wrong people really really judge it. I suppose it’s hard for any of us to say without being there.

overall I think you’re just over involved though, you don’t have to watch their dc if their rules don’t work for you, and their parenting style isn’t your problem or decision to make. I can’t really see how their parenting is affecting you as you say it is? Change the conversation if you’re bored of talking about their dc, see them less, or just leave them to it. If their child has a tantrum and they deal with it or their child doesn’t want to go on a slide and they deal with it, how is it affecting you? You can’t ’Set Boundaries’ for someone else’s parenting. They’re not your boundaries to set, you can only set boundaries for how you choose to behave. As you know, you are not in charge of deciding how everyone should parent, as annoying as that may be.

Sorry I did miss the bit about them not helping out at your house, but depending how long they were there for I wouldn’t expect family to clean up or cook at my house regardless of dc tbh

Urgh I had a similar friend..
She had a brand new house with brand new grass but dc had to have socks and shoes on to go out.
New playhouse-just 1 level
But we had to stand at the doorway and watch them .
Dc were all 7+!!
No quiet cuppa.

Drove me nuts.

It's hard when your kids are in a different place - I expect they over-hovered in your house because they didn't want the house trashed, just look at how many posts there are on here where families have come to stay and the children have broken things.

You're at different stages in parenting, that's all, and have different styles, I quite frequently had to bite my tongue when my own DB brought his children to stay and they were exactly the same ages as mine. His were whiny, clingy, demanding, over-indulged... but he was on holiday, as were they, and they were away from their usual environment. I'd get impatient that they wanted carrying all the time and couldn't walk far - but mine were born and reared in a rural environment, walking a lot, his were from the city where they went everywhere by car.

All are adults now and my DB and I (and all the kids) still have good relationships. The secret is to bite your tongue, say nothing and only offer advice if you are asked. By the time they are about fifteen they're all the same anyway.

My friend was like this. It drove me insane and I’d end up almost in tears she put me on edge so much with their helicoptering. Fast forward a decade and we see each other without the kids and everything is back to normal and she is her old and jolly chilled self again. Motherhood sends some people loopy. Don’t judge, just avoid.

You can't force them or even ask them to change their parenting. It's a non-starter. Imagine how you'd feel if someone made it clear to you that you were parenting wrong, and not just that, that in their opinion you were actually being neglectful and damaging?

You don't have to deal with their 4 year old when he's having a tantrum. In the park, I'd have just left them to it and wandered off for a bit if it was winding me up. At home, let them deal with their children. The issues around how much the adults contribute to clearing up etc is a totally separate issue, but personally if they were my house guests for a couple of days I would not expect them to clear and help out in the way you want them to. If they were staying for longer, a week or more, then I'd be clear about who was doing what up front. That's nothing to do with their parenting though.

When an OP on here is stressing over having their spouses relatives as guests, everyone always says to leave the hosting, cleaning etc. to the spouse.

I don't have anyone in my house longer than an hour, and highly recommend this.

Tell your wife you don't enjoy having four extra people in your house and think of meetups nearer to the relatives.

Is there a specific purpose to the visits? How long and how often?

If it's for all the cousins to play together, that isn't going to happen- they are completely different ages and have been parented completely differently.

If it's for the sisters to catch up, can this be done without you and BIL (who are clearly not going to be mates)?

Something has to change about the current set up as it is working. It's OK for you to tell your wife you don't really like her relatives.

Your house probably isn't toddler proof any more, and small children are a nightmare out of their familiar environment so some hovering and less than ideal behaviour is to be expected. I'm sure you've forgotten the bad bits of preschoolers!

Having said that, the age gap and clash of parenting styles is likely to make visits stressful. Can you restructure how and where you see them to make the clash less obvious?

Yes, wind your neck in. Your children are very different ages and their children are also in an unfamiliar environment; they may also simply be going through a phase. Believe it or not, children’s behaviour is highly variable, and one size doesn’t fit all.

The absolute irony of “their four year old had a tantrum when he didn’t get his own way” followed by “I, an adult, was visibly grumpy with family because I don’t approve of their parenting style”. Why don’t you demonstrate some resilience of your own and act like a gracious adult about it rather than let some very minor irritants get under your skin?

It sounds like you need to let go of the idea of the cousins all playing nicely together and the adults chatting for now. Maybe it will happen later.

I get hovering with an 18 month old but agree with you that it's not great for a 4 year old. It does sound a bit neglectful, are they at school yet?

Did you actually parent yours at 18 mths and 4 because 18mths' old do need a lot of supervision, especially in other people's houses that aren't set up for toddlers and most 4 year olds are hard work and still have the odd tantrum.

I can see it’s irritating but can you unpick just why it annoys you so much? I’m with you, I think they’re wrong to wrap him in cotton wool and he’d be better off with a bit more latitude, but other than them not being good company, can you let it go? They will pick up on the atmosphere.

It’s also possible you’re misremembering this stage - people do. Not that you would have been as risk-averse as these people, but maybe a bit more than you are now.

OP you sound very judgemental, particularly about the 4 yo. Maybe your DC were angels at 4 years old but many kids aren't. You are assuming that the behaviour is a consequence of their parenting style, when in fact the parenting style my be caused by the behaviour/temperament of the child.

Agree with PP, in someone else's house I would definitely hover over an 18 month old and 4 year old otherwise they'd trash the place. Can you visit them in their home instead? Their DC might be less hard work in their own environment and you won't be so irritated by hosting. FWIW I wouldn't expect family members with 2 DC under 5 to do much 'helping out' when visiting in my home, I would expect them to supervise their DC while I host them.

Also when my DC were that age I probably didn't have a lot of other topics of conversation as parenting was pretty full on.

I think you're probably right and they aren't teaching their child independence or resilience, but I don't think you can do much if you want to avoid drama/falling out. Just think in your head these things and try to let it wash over you! They'll have a shock soon when they start school and things may improve.

I can sympathise OP. We have a similar situation in that my DH has a much younger sibling who has young children and we find them very irritating. Some of is, is without doubt, us. We are much older, our own children are grown up and so we don't spend much time with young children these days and we are undoubtedly less tolerant of them than we were when our own children were little. But they are spoilt and babied and the parents are hugely risk averse and panic at the slightest issue, such as wanting to take one of the children to A&E after a minor trip in our garden last time they were here. The "wound" barely merited a plaster!
I find myself biting my lip a lot when we are with them, but ultimately that's all I can do. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I remind myself that people probably disapproved of my parenting too and I know how I felt about unsolicited advice! We keep contact as brief and infrequent as we can get away with. It is frustrating but unless there is a genuine safeguarding concern I think you have to keep your nose out.

OP I agree with you about parenting styles but I think you need to count backwards slowly and accept they are just different. They may relax, they may not.

We had the inverse situation. BIL and SIL were parents before us and ran everything around their children. Being with them was incredibly intense. After a little bit, they started giving them screens, in my view to give themselves permission to switch off as their parenting style was exhausting, and with their devices, the girls were "busy" at least.

Flash forward and our kids are 11 and 8, theirs are teens. Ours definitely have their moments of naughtiness, but they are generally very healthy, outdoorsy, sporty kids. They all run, swim, climb, do other activities. The nieces - one is doing okay but the other is severely anxious, can hardly leave the house on her own or speak to adults who aren't her parents.

I can't say how my own kids will turn out but yes, there is a huge correlation between protecting kids from risk and "parking" them on screens, and anxiety and poor behaviour.

YABU about the 18mo who is still a baby but YANBU about the toddler.

I think you need to put controls in place if this is affecting you so badly. An 18 month and a 4 year old do need constant observation - esp the 18 month. 4 year old might have felt anxious or stressed with you , they are intuitive little things. You will build barriers if you raise what you think are issues. You need to meet outdoors at parks etc and just accept you might not have quality catch up time for a few years. Self reflect too - are you starting conversations that are not about their kids? Also remember they might be drowning in the domestic/work/parenting cycle and not have time or energy for much else. Be kind. Its nice that you camw here first and are clearly wanting to do best by everyone.

I have some sympathy as we had some version of this with SIL, exBIL and their DC. And it IS irritating when they are constantly hovering, but at the same time, you need to just not let it impact you. If they want to feed their children like birds, go for it - you just plonk whatever food is being prepared down and everyone sorts themselvs out. I remember having to turn around so that I could roll my eyes aggressively while they were pinching off tiny pieces of strawberry to put in DN's mouth, literally like he was a baby bird, and he was over a year old! It was insane. DH and I always had a bit of a moan and a "WTF" chat after they left.

Also, it's great that you all hang out together etc, but just enginner to do less with them. DH finds my family a bit irritating at times and vice cersa, so while we see them all regularly, he will wander off to do a chore or to take our DC somewhere or something while they're here and I'll do the same with his family. So we both get a break from the other person's family who, inevitably, we each find more irritating than our own.

Although, the oen thing that did nearly become a problem was when SIL nearly went into a complete meltdown because I refused to stop letting DS walk to school (he is much older than her DC) because of a supposed attemptd kidnapping in the area.... She clearly went home and discussed with BIL what a terribly uncaring, unprotective mother I was!