How do we handle difficult visits with overprotective in-laws and their children?

[DependableBadger]

NC for this as I don't want this linked to my usual account.
I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with my BIL and SIL's (DW's side) parenting style, because I'm increasingly finding visits with them really difficult.
They have 2 DC, aged 18 months and 4. I have 2 DS, 9 and 7, so we're obviously at very different stages of parenting. I completely accept that everyone parents differently, and I'm not claiming that my way is necessarily right. But I am really struggling with how they parent and, more importantly, the effect it has on family visits.
They hover over their DC constantly. There is almost no conversation that doesn't revolve around the children. They regularly talk about how hard everything is and how they can't do anything because of the DC. I do sometimes find myself thinking that perhaps they could actually do more if they weren't constantly intervening/monitoring every little thing the children do.
A recent example really brought it home to me. I took the 4yo out with my two DS to the park. SIL said he couldn't scoot because it was "too hilly" (it really wasn't). He then decided the slide was too high. He had a tantrum when he didn't get his way - lots of crying, although IMO it was more the "performative" sort of crying rather than him actually being distressed.
I found him incredibly difficult to deal with, but if I'm honest I was more frustrated by the fact that I felt his parents had created this situation by constantly doing everything for him and removing any opportunity for him to manage himself, take a small risk, get frustrated etc.
And I know I'm probably being unreasonable here, but I find his behaviour quite difficult to like. He is very petulant and seems to expect adults to accommodate him constantly. My DS were basically getting on with things and he seemed unable to cope with anything that wasn't exactly what he wanted.
They also stayed with us recently. Again, because they are constantly "watching" the DC, they didn't really do anything to help out. We cooked, provided everything, cleared up etc. while they were essentially focused on their children. I appreciate having young children is exhausting, but it can feel like we're providing a hotel service while they supervise their own DC.
Apparently I was visibly grumpy when they left. I genuinely wasn't trying to be, but DW said I'd clearly been annoyed with BIL and SIL. And I probably was, although I didn't consciously intend to show it.
The problem is that I don't actually want to fall out with them. They're family, and they're DW's family. The last thing I want is for DW to feel caught in the middle. She's also very reluctant to say anything because she thinks you should never criticise someone else's parenting.
But I'm increasingly wondering how we're supposed to handle this. I don't want to tell them how to raise their children. That's not my place. At the same time, their parenting choices are starting to affect us when we're together, particularly when their DC are with our DC.
I suppose my biggest concern is that I think they're so risk-averse and interventionist that their DC aren't being given the chance to develop independence. I wouldn't call it abuse or anything like that, but I do sometimes wonder whether constantly preventing a child from experiencing frustration, manageable risk and doing things for themselves is actually a form of neglect in its own way.
Maybe I'm completely out of order here and need to wind my neck in. I have obviously become used to parenting my own two in a completely different way, and perhaps I'm just finding the contrast irritating.
So, MN, AIBU? How would you deal with this?
Do you just accept that this is their parenting style and say nothing? Do you limit visits/staying over? Or is there a way of setting some boundaries without effectively saying "we think you're crap parents"?
I really don't want DW caught in the middle, and I don't want a family row. I just need to work out how to stop myself getting increasingly irritated every time we're together.

Can you not just carry on doing what you want with your kids and leave them to sort theirs out?

I would limit visits to day only, no staying over, so that you aren't waiting on them hand and foot. Second pp suggestion of DW spending more tie with them than you - I have no issue with DH spending time with his family without me and vice versa...

I feel your pain OP. My sibling’s children are very much ‘gentle parented’ and everything involves a discussion, or giving them ‘choices’ and it drives me mad - the younger one runs rings around them. I’m very much “Right, we’re off to the park, get your shoes and socks on!” As in, I’m not asking, I’m telling!😂 Their youngest is 8 and bedtimes are still a massive performance.

DH’s sibling’s kids will be living on Maccies by the time they’re at university, as they’re so regimented about what they can/can’t eat. It gets very awkward. I recall the ear splitting screaming when they were playing and DH telling them off (after thinking someone had injured themselves) and nearly coming to blows with his DB because “they were only playing” - neither of us can stand the screaming noises some children make😳.

With both families, never a moment can go unfilled by organised and regimented fun and booked activity, whereas ours are always off out on their bikes somewhere roaming the village, or chilling out at home. We’re just very different.

Hell is other people’s children OP. It does get easier as they get older though - thankfully ours are all similar ages.

Its hard when where only seeing one side as they may say you seriously lacking in parenting and let your kids run wild. There's a balance and a lot of people don't parent enough

I think you might be related to my friends. 😂 I find being around them so incredibly stressful because they find everything about parenting so much work (because they are making it so much work!).

Literally the children’s hands are wiped with antibacterial wipes every time they pick up a stick. Every meal is hovering and they must eat all their vegetables before they are allowed to eat anything else, followed by protein. The 4 year old actually scolded my 8 year old because he picked up a chip to eat. “Protein first!” 🤣

The last time we saw them we had to sit through an hour long conversation where they argued about the format of the then toddler’s birthday invitation, which fields they wanted to include and in what order. They couldn’t agree if the venue address should come before something else and what images to use and it descended into a full on argument and they had to ask ChatGPT to decide. 🙈 I just wanted to yell, order whatever shit you find on Amazon and be done with it. Birthday invitations are not meant to cause this much strife. It’s so stressful.

My solution is to see less of them! They are technically dh’s school friends though obviously joint friends now. But I send Dh off with the kids to meet up with them if I can and just avoid if I’m not in the mood. You really don’t have to see people together, even if family. Let your wife meet up with them without you or invite them to stay when you’re away sometimes.

You were probably more risk adverse with your children at a pre school / toddler age than you remember yourself being now in hind sight.

You were also probably more cautious with them in other people’s homes than you were your own, out of concern for both the hosts possessions and your child’s welfare. You also know your own child’s style and skills. You're probably now more restrictive / involved / supervising them in some aspects of life than their friends parents, and less so in others.

Scooting being an easy example, if you know they've not sussed braking yet, you dont leave them go wild on slopes where it matters.

Recognise they’re different ages to yours, do some things separately even when they’re staying so everyone gets a break from each other. Accept that when you’re hosting, you may need to do just that and host. It won’t be forever and while mucking in on someone else’s home is very normal in some family’s being hosted is the norm.

Agreed. Bite your tongue.
Maybe step back from the relationship slightly (less visits etc) if being in their company too often is stressing you.

It really isn't affecting your children though.

PP nails it as far as I'm concerned. You're allegedly the grown up with superior parenting skills but here you are getting frustrated, annoyed and grumpy because a four year old behaves like a four year old and an 18 month old needs supervising and isn't being given valuable opportunities to demonstrate their maturity and independence.

I would try being reassuring about your house not being a show home to start with. It's not unusual to hover more closely over small children in someone else's house for fear of a child breaking something and the hosts being cross. So reassure them that everything's ok, nothing breakable is in reach, the telly's attached to the wall etc.

It'll be harder to do this with an 18 month old because they're so small and eat everything - can you clear a specific space to be under 3 suitable re choking hazards? No Lego or other tiny toys.

Can you recruit your children into playing with the toddler specifically? The four year old will be harder but there's still room for them to find a shared activity.

@DependableBadger I was very risk adverse with my children as well. Which is weird because my parents def were not and I was climbing trees in the forest outside our house from when I was 3. Always bruised and scratched somewhere. And yet super anxious about my children hurting themselves. In retrospective I should have let them get on with things but I was so anxious I had to stand nearby ready to catch them if they fell. Now they are teens and I don't sweat it anymore. Ther are very risk adverse as well so wouldn't do anything dangerous.

I do think you are right though ; helicopter parenting is not ideal and children need to experience their physical limits by being able to take risks. It's one thing knowing this intellectually and another being able to overcome your anxiety. This is where dads are important because they are more likely to let the children play freely (or maybe it's just because they are lazy😅)...

It does sound annoying but I wouldn't do anything about it.

Though it is odd that you are comparing a 4 year old to your older DC. Of course they just got on with it at the park, they are much older than 4!

You are seeing a tiny snapshot of their lives. You don’t actually know that they are risk-averse and preventing their children from having independence. Their children may need this type of parenting.

Our DD was eventually diagnosed as ASD. She was different than other children. She required very hands on parenting. We could not relax like the other parents. People absolutely judged us because it wasn’t obvious that she was different.

TLDR: be better people and realize that your experience is not everyone’s experience.

This is a very good post

I think you are too invested in them - it is up to them to parent how they see fit. It's also really not unusual at all to disagree or not really approve of how other people parent their children - but they are not your children so that's OK!

I'd have to reduce time with them or get DW to see her family without you. You really can't tell other people where you think they are going wrong - not if you want to keep on good terms with them anyway.

I think you've forgotten what parenting very young children us like.

I'm also not sure how any of it affects you to this extent.

I very recently saw a 5/6 year old scoot past, fall and hit the corner of a concrete staircase with his eye. The screaming and the blood will stay with me for a long time.

A 4 year old should only scoot if carefully supervised. You were not going to do that while you had your own 2 kids to run around after. That was a sensible decision.

One also tends to really helicopter parent in someone else's house. A 4 year old and an 18 month old can get in a lot of trouble fast and either hurt themselves or break something. I'd rather supervise closely than ruin a family visit. I make very different parenting decisions in someone else's house.

Their children are much younger than yours. It's a mix of 1) forgetting what you were like with an 18 month old and 2) you have to parent the children you have. Some kids do need more supervision, encouragement etc.

You are an adult, bite your tongue and calm the fuck down. Don't be offering to take their kids to the park, leave them to it.

And I would be mortified if a house guest did dishes or cooked food while I was hosting. They're guests.

You seem to be constantly apologising though anyone who knows much about kids knows you're in the right. Teachers, and now university lecturers, say how mollycoddling kids is affecting their chance of a decent life and giving them mental health issues. The only thing that's unfair is blaming the kid for being this way. That would be like blaming him for only eating chips because his parents only feed him chips.
If your in-laws were leaving him unsupervised online, or in the park for that matter, you wouldn't just say that is a parenting choice, yet that's a term used when bad parents let their kids down these days. You and your wife should say you can't stand to put up with it.

I don't think it would be a good idea at all for you to tell your inlaws how to bring up their DCs.

Personally I wouldn't expect ppl with very young DC to be able to help out much. Maybe reduce the catering down to more simple options/ takeaway?

I had friends with very different parenting styles, and yet the now grown up DC are all fairly similar in terms of what they're doing, so its unlikely that the helicoptering will affect much long term.

its frustrating but you just need to not engage and minimise your time with them.

My in laws are the type who think that their young children are the hardest ever, their lives are so tough, no one understands and supports them blah blah. Whilst completely forgetting that ours were that age once and they didn’t give a shiny shit about offering any support to us then.

What? How closely do you supervise a 4 yo scooting? Do you run after them? When in the park my 4yo scoots or cycles far ahead of me then she stops and waits for me to catch up. She also plays on her own in her room upstairs unsupervised for sometimes half an hour or longer.
18 month old needs a lot of supervision especially in a house that isn’t their own so not toddler proofed.
I do agree, OP you just need to leave it, not say anything and hope it gets better with time. How long are the visits?

I’d just cut the visits. Irrespective of their precious parenting, they don’t sound fun for anyone so why bother? Keep it short and infrequent.

Don't invite them to stay. They sound insufferable.

When you have kids and friends and family have kids, especially of different ages, there will always be differences in how you all bring your children up. You have to learn to deal with it (these ones are allowed pudding if they don't finish the first course, yours aren't; these get more pocket money; these are not allowed to go to the shop alone, yours are.....) It's just part of having children when other people also have children, and I think you need to chill a bit.

But you would want to risk them getting hurt during a family visit? Scooters carry a much higher risk than walking. The point is, while DS is allowed to scoot, I'd rather my DS didn't break an arm or whatever during a family visit so I'd likely also make an excuse to prevent him from using it.

In terms of supervision, you can run after him if he's going somewhere he shouldn't, yell at him, make sure he puts a helmet on, take the scooter away if he's being a little shit. If you are distracted by your own 2 children, you are unlikely to do any of the above fast enough.

It’s different when it’s a friend of course but I slowly distanced myself from someone I genuinely liked because of the way they patented their child and the effect that had on my own DDs when her DD was around them. They were similar age. She frequently threw tantrums, demanded that everything was on her terms, refused to engage with other friends DCs and her DM always acquiesced. It was sad. I was rarely able to spend time with my friend without her sat between us, she was resentful of any time my friend spent apart from her and said hateful things to my DDs. I miss my friend. But not her DD.