Frustrated with my children's behaviour - I can't seem to control them!

[SuperMumNot]

2 boys, 7 & 4

Can be lovely, but at the moment seem to be constantly hard work. Am feeling that I can't take them anywhere public as they are just SOOOO badly behaved, and no amount of discipline, threat, reward etc seems to work.

Went swimming this morning. Nightmare getting them changed - grabbing each others clothes, being silly, opening the cubicle door, throwing thigs around..

After swimming I put the eldest one in a next door cubicle to get changed on his own - they end up kicking things underneath and throwing clothes over the top. I was livid, kept telling them to stop, but made little difference.

Had arranged to meet a friend for coffee (leisure centre cafe next to pool)afterwards. Kids go charging out of the leisure centre. I shout at them to stop at the door and wait for me (still rolling towels, gathering clothes etc). They don't stop, and I find them in the cafe next door with my friend (i.e they had to go outside to get there)
I am livid again and tell them off.

I had brought colouring books, puzzles etc to entertain them, as had friend, but within about 20 minutes they were playing up again - started running around, shouting. I was so fed up and embarrassed that we left.

On the way home again I told them why I was so angry and disappointed, and although there was lots of 'yes mummy' the minute we got in the house they were at it again.... wrestling, screaming, chasing each other around.

Nothing works, they just don't listen and nothing seems to work. I can't stand it any more.

do you have good daytime routine and do they have set of boundaries?my 5 t/o ds is really hard to handle but seems to be better with bit of routine as he knows whats happening next and with boundaries knows whats expected of him.sounds strict but isnt at all.

I really do sympathise. my two dds (6 and 4) can be very silly at times and it drives me round the bend. it's almost as if they can't help themselves and I too try doing everything by the book, try rewards, try threats, but when they get in that particular mood I;m afraid that nothing except shouting (very loudly) will get them to stop. so accept my sympathies and I will watch this thread with you for advice!

i agree, a good routine is very helpful. and setting an example. if you shout (back) then they will shout. we stopped shouting at DD and the difference in her is amazing! it's like turning down the volume, she's a lovely quiet girl now.

I too hate shouting and don;t do it normally - I am a big believer in making my requests quietly and politely but there is a particular mood they get into - really silly - no other word to describe it, where all the stuff that they normally respond to just doesn;t work - I think that quite literally they don;t hear me. I do hate it.

Kitty - yes, we have a fairly regular routine, and in fact Sat swimming is part of it. It's just as Hatwoman says though, they just can't seem to help themselves. Have tried the low 'in control' voice and getting them to look at me - face to- face - it doesn't work. They only stop when I shout at them and physically remove and restrain the younger one e.g. if wrestling.

Their diet is good - it's not an additive thing either.

Really am at the end of my tether. Today I truly hate them.

what are they like at school?

Lots of positive praise and LOTS and LOTS of exercise helped when my two boys were little.
Boys are so boisterous and giddy sometimes, and so full of energy that it can feel like they're being deliberately naughty when they're really just over excited.
I know it's hard, but try not to think of them as doing it to wind you up.
Wrap 'em up and take them out for a very long walk.
If your children are the kind that love to work to a certain aim, then you could instigate a star chart.
Shouting just doesn't work, IME, as they become immune to it and just ignore it.
And it just makes for a negative and unpleasant atmosphere, IMO.
Boundaries are vital too, so try to incorporate these into the positive praise elements eg: "I don't want you to throw your clothes around when we are getting changed for swimming, as it wastes time and your clothes might get wet. Whoever gets changed quietly and quickly, and helps me fold their clothes and put them in the bag will get a star on their chart" etc.
I also used to give the children responsibility for certain things, which they loved eg: DS1 could carry the swimming bag, DS2 could put the money in the locker etc.
It's hard work, but it does pay off in a relatively short space of time, IME.

great advice, HC.
i think i tried everything possible with DD and i found what worked was:

praise
consistency
rewards
one-on-one time
distraction
staying calm
effective commands
noticing triggers
predictable consequences
ignoring
being firm when needed
keeping her busy
routine
clear rules
united front with DP

what definitely didn't work:

shouting
smacking
time out
bribing
guilt trips
toy confiscation
nitpicking
negative looks
criticism
threats
sending her to bed early
mixed messages

she's still naughty sometimes, but her behaviour really turned around after using those positive things.

genuine question asleep what's the difference between a bribe and a reward? is it that you don;t annouce the reward prior to the good behaviour? ie a bribe is "if you've got your coat on by the time I count to 10 we'll call in at the shop and you can chose a cake for tea" ; and a reward is - after the event - "well done for putting your coat on so quickly, because you've been good we'll stop at the shop....etc"

You should have left teh swimming pool when they started acting up in teh cubicle at the beginning. Give them two warnings then pack up and go home.

No shouting, ignore tantrums, maintain stony silence.

Thanks - some useful advice here!

Kitty - they are OK at school, although the younger one does 'bug' DS1 a lot.

Actually, I think a lot of it is DS2 being silly (he's 4...) and then DS1 coming 'down' to his level.

Pointy - I didn't really want to leave as it was swimming lesson (i.e. paid for) rather than a 'treat' IYSWIM....

I agree with Kitty leave the swimming pool even if it's paid for.

Also - give them choices, but controlled ones so when they are acting up in the changing rooms you say Right, you have a choice you can continue behaving like this and then we will go home or you can get undressed quietly and we will stay what are you going to choose.

It works for me.

Glassofwine - I know what you mean about leaving, but in this particular case it wasn't really an option (i.e. meeting friend, DH picking us up at set time etc)

Also, DS1 had already being playing up saying he didn't want to go swimming, so this wouldn't have been seen as a punishment - more of a victory I suspect!

DS2 in particular just doesn't seem to understand. The minute I finish telling him off he starts again

ok so don't tie yourself in to all these things you can't get out of because your kids'll know that any threats are hollow. Try it for a bit.

Agree wuth glassofwine's choices. After that, two warnings and you stop the activity regardless. Amd don't feel embarrassed about their behaviour at all. Let them know their behaviour impacts on them, not you.

Supermum - I'm not going to add the NOT as I feel sure it isn't true.

I also have a ds aged 4 and he is trying. He will also agree to all sort of things and then forget about it within seconds - they apparently get a testoterone(sp) surge around 4. I also have times when I despair - I just keep telling myself its a phase.

When my children are like this (which they frequently are), ime the key is to control the older one and separate them. If I am in the house, ds gets sent to his room (he doesn't mind, he just reads) and then the others seem to calm down. If we are in public, it is more difficult, but at the swimming pool ds goes into the next cubicle on his own while I change the younger children. He can read at cafes and is not seated next to his siblings. Today we were at a bathroom showroom and he and dd1 went mad and started racing round. I made him stay with us and then dd1 calmed down too.

He knows that I expect him to behave better than his younger siblings as he should know better and can control himself more. I don't discipline him more, I just think in my family he is the leader of the children so it has most effect to stop him.

hatwoman, that is pretty much it, yes.
DD has a jar with pebbles. she got 10 pebbles today and she got a prize. sometimes that prize is a toy or a magazine but it is usually a trip to the park, a long bedtime story or baking together. the best rewards are just (unexpected) nice gestures, even simply things that make her realise that when she's nice she gets nice things. and they make me feel like i can be a friendly mummy.

asleep - that's really useful - I think my problem has been the failure to see the distinction - when we did a pasta jar (like your pebbles) I was always saying "if you do this, then you can put a piece of pasta in" - on the face of it it seems ok - it's very clear, understandable etc, and in the short-term it gets things done, but in the longer term it drove me round the bend - before long dds were saying "do we get a piece of pasta if we get ready quickly" etc. I am going to try more rewards. In fact - partly coz of this thread - I came downstairs yesterday saying what an amazing job the girls had done tidying their room and I thought we should all go out and have a piece of cake.

OK, I have to take back all I said.... my children are lovely, and I was clearly having a bad PMT day yesterday....

Yesterday evening we went to a neighbours for a kids/adult drinks party (5-7pm) and the boys were fantastically well-behaved, played nicely with other children, were polite etc.

i think the reason they are not listening to you is there are no consequneces for their actions. but if you say it, you need to mean it and do it, or there is no point. especially when they left the swimming baths without you thats just dangerous. if they knew they would lose their best toy for the rest of the day, miss a party thats coming up, day out etc do you think they would have done it?

I'm so pleased you're feeling better today

You ahve my sympathy for those bad days though. I had been feeling just like you for a while when my kids (age 5 and 3) were pushing every single one of my buttons and driving me to the edge! I've since just decided that I simply won't rise to it anymore - if my 5yo is going to shout at me, fine she can but I won't shout back and she soon realises it won't get her anywhere and has (almost) given up bothering to start in the first place. And just reminding her that she has to chose how she wants the day to go - nice things happen to nice children

Have a good day today x

supermum

mysonsmummy - that's the problem - I have done all those things, but they just don't work - removed favourite toys for a period of time, taken away Gameboy, cancelled trips etc. It's just when they get into a frenzied state there is no amount of reasoning/ threats/ communication that seems to work. That is why I was so frustrated - I know and apply the theory - it just doesn't always work, and sometimes I feel like I've run out of ideas.
Anyway, we were at a friend's today and her son was much more badly behaved, so at least I didn't feel quite so bad!

yet again I can so understand where you're coming from "frenzy" can sometimes be just the right word. and there really is no reasoning with them. for this particular thing I think avioding triggers is key, and seperating them (as some here have mentioned.) my dds used to bath together and ended up virtually hysterical. I just don;t put them in the bath together any more.