Frustrated with my children's behaviour - I can't seem to control them!

[SuperMumNot]

2 boys, 7 & 4

Can be lovely, but at the moment seem to be constantly hard work. Am feeling that I can't take them anywhere public as they are just SOOOO badly behaved, and no amount of discipline, threat, reward etc seems to work.

Went swimming this morning. Nightmare getting them changed - grabbing each others clothes, being silly, opening the cubicle door, throwing thigs around..

After swimming I put the eldest one in a next door cubicle to get changed on his own - they end up kicking things underneath and throwing clothes over the top. I was livid, kept telling them to stop, but made little difference.

Had arranged to meet a friend for coffee (leisure centre cafe next to pool)afterwards. Kids go charging out of the leisure centre. I shout at them to stop at the door and wait for me (still rolling towels, gathering clothes etc). They don't stop, and I find them in the cafe next door with my friend (i.e they had to go outside to get there)
I am livid again and tell them off.

I had brought colouring books, puzzles etc to entertain them, as had friend, but within about 20 minutes they were playing up again - started running around, shouting. I was so fed up and embarrassed that we left.

On the way home again I told them why I was so angry and disappointed, and although there was lots of 'yes mummy' the minute we got in the house they were at it again.... wrestling, screaming, chasing each other around.

Nothing works, they just don't listen and nothing seems to work. I can't stand it any more.

Completely agree about the "state of frenzy" that two (or more) children can whip themselves into. My two are 2.8 and 5...and sometimes it is almost like hysteria. With the best will in the world, I can get down to eye level, use a calm, moderated tone and not get a flicker of response.
DD (5) seems to instigate it - "run round and hold onto my t shirt" and DS just complies. However, I'm not sure with my two whether it actually is excess energy or just boredom and no skill in channelling it. Last week when it happened, I whizzed their shoes and coats on and said "Hey, go and run outside, there's loads of roon, wooooo how exciting". Shut the door and left them to it. Two minutes later, their faces are pressed up at the door and they are both begging to come in! They had "nothing to play", although I had given them balls and there is a slide and swing, and obviously without mummy to annoy it wasn't any fun!

If it's light and dry - throwing them outside is one of my new resolutions. not ideal for when you;re naked and just out of the bath thouhg...!

The question would be whether they do this almost everytime you try to go somewhere or just occasionally. First, all kids do this sometimes and I find, sometimes, you just have to leave. They can't manage themselves and you have to do it for them. But if it happens alot then I suggest you take them home a few times and I can guarantee they will stop doing it.

I wanted to add, I think the answer was in your comment, you didn't want to leave because you paid for the lessons, I am sure they somehow knew this too, so your ultimate weapon, we are going home was empty as they knew they were going to get to swim. IF a few times, you actually make them go home, sling one over your shoulder if you have to, take them home, let them all calm down, talk about it later but don't feel guitly, be clear you will do it again if they act up. You will get improved behavoir outside. But don't crack, if you say you are leaving, leave. If you can't follow through, don't say it. But like I said, as did everyone, all kids are like that sometimes. In our house we call it "frantic".

I know exactly where you are coming from Supermum. I have two boys aged 8 and 5 and they seem to specialise in winding themselves - and consequently us - up! Our flashpoints seem to be getting ready for school; getting ready for bed and travelling anywhere in the car when they're sat next to each other for longer than 10 mins.

Yesterday was a particularly bad day when we were out looking for a new car. They just got so silly they were besides themselves and no amount of telling them off, separating them etc worked. It resulted in them going to bed early and not being able to watch TV or play on PC / PS2 but I don't think even that got the message through.

We've done star charts etc in the past and I think we're going to have to go back to that and I'm going to introduce checklists for morning / evening activities too.

The youngest child seems to start it and then the oldest hits back or - if it's silly behaviour - laughs/joins in. I've tried taking the oldest one out of the equation by sending him to his bedroom etc but feel now that I'm always picking on him which is unfair because he's generally responding to whatever DS2 has started but ends up hurting DS2 because he's bigger and stronger. I think to keep trotting out the 'you're the oldest so should know better' line is damaging our relationship which I don't want!

Sorry - this has turned into a bit of a long diatribe which isn't any help to you Supermum except maybe in showing that you are not alone and I too was pleased to be dropping them at school this morning!

Something seems to happen to boys at about 4 - with or without an older sibling.

Supermum - is DS2 in reception? DS (4, just started 2nd term in reception class) and his best mate both seem to be going through "child from hell" stage. DS has always been capable of playing up at home, but could be relied on to be on best behaviour anywhere else. Yesterday he was manic and generally a complete nightmare at my parents house, which he has NEVER done before.

We ended up putting it down to not enough excercise - they seem to have SO much energy at this age, the only answer is to try and wear them out. Fine during the week, as the school has loads of outside space and makes sure they get out come rain or shine, but with 14 week DD and builders all over the house it has been hard to find time to wear him out at the weekend.

Does anyone else also find regarding rewards and delegating jobs that it opens up a whole new negatative experience you never saw coming. we've had marbles, stickers, stars, it then turns into a big competition, with the youngest crying because he didn't get a reward or the me first syndrome, or the no mum asked me to do it. I always end up thinking why did I bother. I know this is negative, and I will now go away and get into the zone.

I've got two boys aged 8 and 7. They're 13 months apart. I've also got a Daughter aged 10. When the boys were younger, they were awful, and like SuperMumNot says, I just felt that I couldn't take them anywhere. As they've got older, they're getting better. They still play up at home, but I don't really worry too much about that, as long as they're behaving better in Public which they are. One of our major flashpoints which has improved is the Supermarket trip. It used to be such a trigger for them to beahve terribly. Then my Daughter would join in too, and still does with a lot of the silliness at home now. I've tried shouting (still do it) doesn't have much effect, we've done reward charts etc, they aren't interested, if they don't get a star they "ain't bovvvered" (!) To be honest, the thing that's worked for me is just ignoring a lot of it. Once they're not getting a reaction, they don't seem to do it so much. The thing that still drives me up the wall is the constant bickering and name calling. they're like a couple of old women. A friend once said to me "just tune out, let them get on with it and only intervene if there's blood spilt." Good advice, I thought, but I struggle to ignore the bickering.

Fortunately they're both well behaved at school, so I can cope with them letting off a bit of steam at home. They're lovely cuddly, funny boys. They've both had health problems and have been under the hospital, and I wouldn't change them for the world.

Ah yes, exbury, at around age 4 they have a huge surge of testosterone which really accounts for a lot of the behaviour. A good read is 'Raising Boys' by Steve Biddulph. I think that's the Author's name, anyway. You'd find the book in any bookshop in the parenting section, and you could probably get it on Amazon. I read it when my two were babies. In fact, I might dig it out and read it again. As I said, it really explains their behaviour and about the testosterone surge. Also explains how and why Mothers develop their relationship with Sons, and why it is often different to the relationship with Daughters. Intersting stuff.

Thanks, MummyPenguin - I have seen the book but never got around to buying/reading it. I think I might have to - repeating "it's just a phase, it's just a phase" under my breath as he stamps his foot and laughs in my face when I have to tell him off again is wearing a bit thin!

Does anyone have any brilliant ideas for things to keep an "only child" amused outside without constant parental intervention? It is too cold for DD (14wks) to spend as much time outside as DS needs - we have a big, safe garden so he can play outside on his own - but understandably gets bored. He got binoculars (kids ones!) for Christmas, so "watching birds" lasted about 10 minutes yesterday - trouble is, he is so noisy that the Jackdaws were the only birds he didn't scare away!

has he got a sandpit,
btw bit cold isnt it? and muddy here!
digging..for worms? or other treasures?

Sandpit is a no-no because our cat (and neighbours 6 cats) would find other uses for it in no time.. I need DH to get around to digging DS "his" garden (or admit defeat and do it myself) but DH rightly points out that he has his work cut out to get jobs done that need doing before the builders can do their next bit (and DS is bored of being a builders mate as well, cos he never gets to do the "interesting" bits).

It is cold and muddy, but he doesn't seem to feel the cold and I bought him "farmers" overalls for Christmas so that he could get as muddy as he likes.. anyway, I would prefer cold muddy child to manic, stroppy one!

Was so relieved to see this thread as we've been having a really horrible time with our 2 ds 7 and 5. My DH was away 3 nights last week and I put it down to them missing him and me being exhausted. We also have a dd(20 months). They were driving me out of my mind with fighting, bickering and general meaness towards eachother. I just kept thinking what have we done wrong to have created these monsters? I was in tears when dh returned home from work friday evening.

We made a conscious decision to spend alot of time with them doing things over the week-end. This included having no friends around, no television, no computer etc. They went to bed early, as I think they get overtired with school and other activites. We also missed a saturday morning activity they do. We spent saturday morning doing jobs together like tidying bedrooms. In the afternoon we all went on a nice outing on a steam train and they behaved the best I can ever remember, being particularly nice to some younger children we met on the train. I was actually very proud they were my boys as I kept telling them. Sunday was ok although we had to keep a tight rein on them. At one point ds 1 was teaching ds2 chess for 1/2 an hour without fighting!!

This morning they got themselves dressed without being asked, ate breakfast without any fuss and were happy to go to school. I hardly had to raise my voice once. I know it will change again and I will be tearing my hair out, but think the combination of spending lots of positive time together, listening to them more than usual and dh and I being consistent and united in our approach paid off.

mimizan, that's great!

DD was lovely this weekend up until i got a bit stressed. i was changing DS' nappy and he kept rolling over (as 7 month olds do and it drives me mad!). so DD acts up. we sussed it straight away. noticing triggers is very helpful.

also we noticed saturday mornings are bad with her. she gets bored. so once we noticed that we found her activities to do or we just go out! fresh air and running around!

Exbury - yes - DS2 is in 2nd term Reception!

I did wonder about that and whether it's a reaction to having to sit still more etc.

Anyway, what a relief to see I'm not alone!

Having done a bit of comparing notes at school today - most of DS's classmates seem to be going through some form of rebellious / not sleeping / generally manic phase so perhaps it is that school is getting a bit more like work and they have more steam to let off at home? I am sure this must have a knock-on effect on your DS1.

I am trying to count my blessings as DS is (mostly) cheerfully manic - it just wears me down that he just never stands, or sits, still! Also hoping that new baby lambs in the field next door will be enough of an attraction to keep him outside for a while

Watching this thread with interest.

My ds is 3.6 and I feel he must have this surge of testosterone already!! Is that possible, I wonder? He gets sooooo fidgety and will not sit still for long to do much at all. I try reading him a book, for example, and he's desperately trying to turn the pages way before I've finished reading the page I'm on. He gets very bored with playing by himself, too. It's pretty frustrating.

His sister is only 9 mths but I already notice that when he starts getting 'over-excited' and 'silly' and, say, she giggles at him - he gets even more wound up and exaggerates the silliness...as if the encouragement from her makes him want to 'perform' in this way more.

I do feel for you supermum'not'. I have to admit, I look forward to the time when I can drop him off at school However - how he would cope at school sitting down worries me!! We only live in a flat - how I wish I had a garden so I could let him out!

hmmm. bit concerned I'm the only one on this thread talking about dds. heigh ho.

I have started to give my 2 ds a shot of Bach's Rescue Remedy as needed. It has been working a treat. They played really nicely together for ages this morning without coming in to wake me. They got dressed without being asked and were generally lovely. We were even all smiling and joking on the walk to school. It could be a coincidence but am going to keep using it. I hope it's not harmfully addictive!!

Supermumnot - what a lively pair of boys! It made me smile reading about them in the changing rooms - My DS and DD (6 and 3) are just the same - life seems to be one huge, very loud and boisterous, game to them

I think the advice about structure is spot on. Our day consists of structured time when they have to sit still, hurry up, walk next to me etc. and time they can run around like loonies having a laugh. I find I do have to be very, very persistent during the strict times - often sounding quite cross and stern, or they won't take it seriously. I hate hearing my cross voice, but they do get the message if it sounds cross and determined enough.

Its lovely to see them larking about though, during the unstructured times.

Haven't read whole thread, but empathise enormously with you SuperMumNot. My boys are now 10 & 8, and the 10 year old in particular has always been very high energy and mischievous. All I can say is it does get better! He is now on the whole really good company & pretty well behaved. He now recognises that he gets a feeling in his stomach when he's going wild and when he does get silly generally responds to being told that the situation is winding up & that he needs to calm down and squash the silliness down or 'things will be taken away'. No magic answers - probably a mixture of maturity, us calming down as he's calmed down and lots of channelling in to sports and activities, but things do get better.

only just seen this thread - another mum of boys here.
Mine are 9 and 6, and only a month ago, I was scooping fulsome praise from dozens of people after a very grown-up wedding and evening dinner where they were the only children and behaved fabulously (though I did have to snarl a few hissed threasts through a fixed grin at one point but think we got away with it )

But the other day I ended up in tears after a day of them hitting each other, winding each other up, seeking out the other to torment when they had been seperated, jumping on sofas, thud crash etc all round house.
I told them I wasn't going to play this mum game any more as it sucked.
''we just can't help it mum'' said ds2 as arm snaked round my neck. ''We don't mean to be naughty, I can't even think what we've done that was so naughty. We're just beastly boys - but we're your beastly boys and we love you.''

lol to the vixen boys

my DSs are younger, 3 and 2, but they do wind each other up and egg each other on. If I can give DS1 something interesting to do he is good as gold. Tonight when I came in he helped me sort out the batteries on my bike light, which he was really pleased with and it was lovely.

then after their bath he went wild and DS2 was too tired to join in so we were right at the other extreme, ho hum

DS1 and DD1 have hated each other since the day DD1 was born - they've been embarrassingly awful at times - when they were younger I felt absolutely unable to control them. Now they're 19 and 17 and they still hate each other - physically fighting over who gets to have the TV hand control, etc. My approach for a long time has been to just walk out of the room on the basis that they needed to learn how to resolve disputes themselves - plus me getting involved seldom actually helped. Admittedly my technique did fail when the younger managed to concuss the older by pushing him off the sofa, but I've pretty much blanked that out by now ! I always blamed myself until I had DS2 and DS3 (much later - there was a big gap between them) who get on really well and I think will always be friends - some siblings are just never going to get on, and once I'd accepted that I felt a lot better.