Those of you who put newborns down to sleep at 7pm-ish...

[CharlieMouseWillDoIt]

How long do they sleep for? I've always thought that "sleeping through the night" for a newborn is 5 hours unbroken sleep, so if they go down at 7pm, that means them being awake again at midnight. And then what happens if/when they do wake up?

I'm asking out of genuine curiosity as my DD (who is now a strapping toddler) would never go to sleep that early in the evening. She would cluster feed during the evening and would eventually go to sleep at about 11.30-midnight. Even when she was a bit older (6 months or so), any sleep she had before about 9pm would turn out to be a 40 minute nap, then she'd wake up and be awake for another couple of hours. It has taken a long time and a lot of patience to get her to go to sleep (and stay asleep) in the early evening.

I guess this is where the phrase every baby is different comes in, but I do remember feeling a bit in awe of my friends whose babies went to sleep at 7pm and stayed asleep.

I'm guessing bottle fed. A bf baby would rarely do that in my (accepted its limited!) experience!

My bf dd didn't do 5hrs ie 11pm-4am til she was 6mths. I thought she was dead the first few nights. I nearly shook her awake.

A full night 7-7 occurred at 20 mths.

I stopped discussing sleep with mates. Wasn't worth the pain of hearing how successful theirs did it.. X

I put both mine down at 7. They may wake for a feed but we co- sleep and they fed in their sleep and stay asleep till the morning. 7pm was just a natural time for DS- I never tried to get him into a routine, he just fell into one. And now with dd it's easier to follow the same times so I get a break from both of them!

Both mine, 1 ebf and 1 ff, were doing about 12 hours a night from about 8pm at around 3/4 months. Think we were very lucky with the ebf one! Pity neither of them sleep through now...!

sigh!

We started putting DS to bed at 7-7.30ish when it became obvious he was sleeping all evening downstairs anyway, that was at about 6-8 weeks IIRC. I would dreamfeed him when we went to bed at 10.30ish and that was him settled til either about 2 and 5am or as he got older it was more like 3 and 7am, and by 5.5 months he had dropped pretty much all the night feeds, just the occasional early waking.

He did it all by himself, I never once experienced a cluster feed.

DD is now 21 months and she's done 6.45pm-6.15am ONCE! Haha. At least I know she's almost capable of sleeping a 12 hour stretch!

and he was BF apart from a bedtime bottle of EBF while I got in the bath. I think some babies are just that way inclined.

All 3 of mine were breastfed and slept from 7pm (or earlier - fed to sleep, so whenever they dropped off) until 10 or 11ish.

Then had a feed and then back to sleep for a few hours, then usually one more wake in the night and up for the day around 7am.

How do you reconcile putting them 'to bed' at 7pm with the SIDS guidance that all sleeps, including naps, should be in the same room as an adult up to 6 months ? Do you just ignore it?

Relevant factsheets here

Yes, I just ignore it.

I don't know anyone whose baby has all their naps in the family room until 6 months.

My babies would never have got the sleep they needed if I had done that.

can't 'putting to bed' also mean in a moses basket though? In which case they could still be in the same room?

DS went into his crib in our bedroom in the evening, his monitor had a movement sensor pad so we could see it blipping all the time.

We always counted sleeping all night as being asleep from about 10/11 to 5/6. For us bedtime was 10/11 when she was a newborn. It seemed to work well as we were not expecting a huge amount of sleep from 7-10pm. Gradually we brought forward her bedtime to be earlier and earlier as she slept longer.

We were very lucky with her as a newborn as she managed sleeping from 10ish to 7 from 5/6 weeks and through the night about 12 weeks (8-7). She was fed expressed milk in bottles due to my rubbish non-latchable boobies. She always drank a lot at once which I think was a result of the feeding plan she had when she was jaundiced (hopsital insisted on 70 mls every 3 hours).

It all went tits up though once she became a toddler @20 months ! But we were lucky early on.

From the link above:

"One study, that compared 745 SIDS babies with 2411 control babies across Europe, estimated
that 36% of SIDS deaths could have been prevented if the babies had slept in a cot in the same
room as the parents.
? An English study, comparing 325 SIDS babies with 1300 control babies, found that 75% of the
day-time SIDS deaths occurred while babies were alone in a room.

There is no evidence to show that baby alarms, or movement monitors, prevent SIDS."

I would say there's good reason not to ignore the advice.

As you say, all babies are different, and I think a fair amount of it is down to luck. I consider the phrase 'sleeping through the night' to mean just that - i.e. with small babies 7pm-7am ish with no wakes or feeds.

With all my 3 (who were EBF) the first 4 or 5 weeks involved much crying and fussing and feeding in the early evenings and so I would have them down with me in the moses basket. Each time by about 6 weeks when they were more settled I started to put them to bed upstairs after bath and last feed at 7pm / 7.30ish, it took a bit of time to get it established, with much going in and out and cuddling /rocking etc, but they all soon started going to sleep at that time and then waking in the early hours for a feed, then back to sleep until morning. DD1 miraculously (and with little input from me) started sleeping through 11 - 12 hrs a night from around 8 weeks old and DD2 and DS both did the same from about 10 weeks and 12 weeks respectively.

I didn't have any special magic tricks or advice, (except that when they woke in the night I always spent about 5 mins trying to resettle without feeding before offering a feed and often that worked), that's just what happened, with the DDs anyway, DS needed a tiny bit more pushing through to drop the night feeds.

Declutterbug what % of SIDS has been prevented by sleeping in the same room?

I put the DTs down to sleep about 7 pm in our room in baskets and then in travel cots. My reasoning being to get them into a routine asap. It was easier if both DH and I did it, but it then left us time for DS1 to have his bath and bedtime routine from 7.30 onwards. It was important to us that DS still had that time with us without the DTs.

DTs then fed roughly every 3 hours during the night, so 10.00 / 10.30 onwards etc. They gradually dropped those feeds, it took ages for us to pluck up the courage to drop the 10.30 feed, they were about 15 months, we just wanted them to sleep through and not wake up. They also had all their naps upstairs too.

It is shocking but I never considered SIDs in that instance, even though I followed the rest of guidance, including sleeping in the same room when I was asleep. . I just didn't connect it all up.

Ivy that question is not possible to answer. What is known is that lone sleeping significantly increases the risk, as the research linked to above clearly demonstrates. The uk advice is very clear that babies under 6 months are at increased risk if they sleep alone.

For me, following thecsids advice is putting the baby in a Moses basket to sleep then carrying it around. When dd1 was v tiny she was in her basket in the lounge then we'd take her to our bedroom when we went to bed. It was simple enough. When she got older we pitcher basket in the bedroom when she went to sleep and checked on her frequently. Atcthatctime we lived in an apartment on one floor where the living area was v close to the bedroom anyway.

I'm in a big Victorian terrace now so with dd2 I reckon the safest would be to carry her basket around again.

Been thinking a lot about SIDS today as mW mentioned the Born on Bradford study on cot death etc and its findings.

Declutterbug - sorry but the research is not clear, the English study is far to small a number for starts the other study is bigger but not really vastly so, then the figures give 75% of the day time sids - how many of the 325 were days time - it doesn't say. 1300 control babies - what are the circumstances of the control babies.

Sorry but my question outlines the fact you can't answer it yet you have a control section in the study? It doesn't add up.

therefore the research doesn't clearly show anything, other than guilt tripping parents

The only thing that is clear is the fact that parents are being told not to let there babies sleep in a different room from where they are as this will cause a risk of sids

Unless you stand over your sleeping baby every second of the time they are sleeping how could you ever be 100% confident that they were not going to succumb to SIDS?
How does a parent sleep, spend time with other DC, go for a pee?
I think common sense has to prevail, although as a new parent it is very, very easy to hang on to every snippet of guidance/directive given & feel incredibly guilty if you don't/can't.
By following temperature & feet to foot guidelines plus using available technology ie motion sensor monitors parents generally give their DC every chance they can.
Back to the original post - DS was encouraged into a 7pm bedtime routine really early on, I think at about 6 weeks. It was poo poo'd by our NCT advisor but 20 months on we still have the same routine and a boy who sleeps 7-7/8 give or take illness, teething etc. Early on his evening pattern was a short sleep 7-10pm then maybe a 2/3am feed and another at 6/7am. We found dream feeding didn't suit him or us and the 10pm feed was the first to be dropped. DS due anytime NOW and we'll introduce the same routine for him (& hope he's as good!?).

I breastfed DS - put him down around 7pm, then gave him a feed around 10:30pm (although that was often a bottle done by DH so I could get more sleep) then he'd wake up around 2-3am for a feed then sleep until 6ish. from about 3 months he kept going longer after the 10:30 - 11pmish feed until he dropped it all together, then around 5 months we dropped the 10:30 one as we were having to wake him for it and he managed to get from 7pm until 6ish without anything. However, the feed before bed would start at around 6:15pm and he'd just empty me so I think he just filled up with the same aound as cluster fed babies did.

DS went in a basket in our room to start with, while he left him with the monitor for the first couple of hours, I was normally in bed by 9pm. However, he very quickly outgrew it so we were those terrible parents who put their little one in their own room early. (there's not room in our bedroom for a big cot, and he wanted to sleep with his arms out wide - we moved him in his own room at 10 weeks) I guess we were slightly increasing his risk of SIDS, but the logistics of our home gave us few options once he was out of the moses basket. We could have coslept, but that's supposed to be bad for SIDS as well...

I kept DS with me for all sleeps until he was about 5 months - I don't think it is that unusual? Naps in living room/in sling/pram etc

3 of my 4 DCs have been kept with me for all sleeps under 6 months and many over. Daytime sleeps all in sling/arms; evening spent in arms (or v occasionally rocker chair/moses basket, nighttimes in our room. Never found it to be a problem.

The numbers in the studies are small because, very very thankfully, in this country the SIDS death rates are so low now that there aren't large numbers to study. The vast majority are attributable to somking (especially during pregnancy). Some of the researchers believe that soon the term SIDS will be defunct, because actually the numbers are so small and more and more people will be picking them apart into separate causes rather than the catch-all banner for unexplained.

There is a v slightly increased risk of SIDS with co sleeping but barely significant IMO.

From what I've seen not smoking, keeping an eye in temp in room, not over wrapping etc and ensuring ventilation is the most you can sensibly do. Some babies are more at risk due to gender, low birth weight and other health issues but then I suppose like others that those deaths are not really SIDS if they can be attributed.

I have a close friend who is an emergency nurse at our local a&e. when we had our dc she wax very paranoid about SIDS due to having seen cases of it but resolutely states that in her experience the biggest risks are being unchecked for several hours and using CIO type sleep training methods - as in these were the common factors in all cases over the last 5 or so years in our area. Whether those parents were smokers etc I have no idea.