After a restless night........ I'm calling all those looking for a bit of intellectual stimulation

[Bugsy2]

WickedWaterWitch threw down the gauntlet last night & suggest that MN lacked intellectual rigour these days. She told me to start an intellectual debate.
After a restless night of blonde fretting & much whistling of the air through that little challenged bodypart (my brain) I have come up with the following:
MORALITY: What is it? Where is it to be found? Does it vary or is it absolute? Please discuss.....

i think morality is the feelings and beliefs of the majority, or an individuals perception of the aforesaid.

I would define morality as a code of conduct that would be accepted by everyone, or by every sane person anyway. But I suppose it could be a code of conduct put forward by a religion, and then it might not apply to everyone.

it varies from nation to nation, creed to creed, according to the hegemonicdogmatic power system which will benefit from its implementation

Ok, colditz how does that sit with the belief system within Nazi Germany? Given that the majority believed in white supremacy (even if they were not aware of the genocide). Was that still morality or a moral code?

of course that should be hegemonic and dogmatic

and I somehow feel there should be a dialectical and polemic in there somewhere but I'm not entirely certain where

suzywong - can you explain "hegemonicdogmatic" for the lesser intellectuals among us (like me!)

no
I can't

stop trying to show me up will ya?

I don't think it does vary much from nation to nai
tion, the most basic moral code is the same everywhere. don't kill unless you have to, don't be nasty to people for no reason etc. any variation in what is acceptable is down to religion of some form, it is an imposed morality and not the natural code of conduct that would be accepted by everyone as sensible and necessary.

Gramsci's term for political and ideological dominance of one class over another

I've started one on the G8 summit but got no takers

ah well that's your basic moral code isn't it? I mean Catholic countries would condemn divorce and protestant or non demoninational ones wouldn't, so does that suggest that we have to boil down 'morality" in to tenets and ways of behaving that would define civilization in its broadest sense?

Joolstoo, where is your G8 one? - that was my second option that I came up with in the bath this morning!!!!

I knew that, I did honest

but lemonice did you know that he wrote the prison notebooks on loo roll in his own blood?????/

Joolstoo where is your G8 one? I didn't spot and started one myself..not hugely popular{grin}

actually just discovered lemonice started one on the same subject probably why no-one responded

crossed posts! - same theme lemonice - Bob's boat thing

I think morality fluctuates according to those applying it. I don't believe we will ever live in a "moral" society, because one person's morals are not the same as another's.

If people who have a very high standard of living try to apply their morals to people who have a very low standard of living, the latter group are going to fail miserably, so therefore we all adapt our moral code to our own chosen or unchosen lifestyle.

For example, an affluent couple may believe it is morally wrong to leave your child in the care or a child minder, but to a couple who both have to work, this is an unacceptable morality that they cannot possibly conform to.

They are more likely to adjust their morality around their personal circumstances than to live in utter poverty, as to not adjust their morality and do it anyway would cause unbearable mental distress, as would living in poverty. Most people will take the path of least resistance and adjust their moral code.

Suzy no I didn't.

I had a tutor at art college who was deeply political and hegemony was one of his favourite words/topics.

I am pondering the morality question...could be some time

but is it a "J"g or a hard g in hegemony? We had a tutor and uni who used to drop it in every other sentence, but that was the 80s for you

but there are some things that you would never do, no matter what your situation, and I think that's what morality is. Some of the rules may change depending on your personal circumstances and religious/cultural beliefs but the basic system is always the same.

yes good point colditz, it is, IMO almost infinetly adjustable according to material benefit, and by material I also include the need to keep a group or tribe cohesive and controllable in order to increase production of material goods or means of survival

case closed, we ARE clever I think Bugsy 2

Morality is a system of standards, based on integrity, honesty, goodness, virtue, often driven by religion.

The cultural norms of morality are relative to particular societies, individuals, and historical periods. What is right for you may not be right for me. What is wrong today may not be wrong tomorrow.

For example, every culture has taboos against stealing. Yet a desert culture may penalize the theft of water much more highly than a tropical culture.

It is also difficult for people who have been raised with one code of morals or manners to appreciate the customs of someone who has been brought up with a different code - it is common for people to assume that the other person has no manners or no morals if they don't understand the moral code which they are operating under.

Beansmum, I think that too depends on what sort of life you are forced to lead. I could say now that I will never prostitute myself, but if my child was going to starve otherwise, under the red light I would go.

If it was a choice between contract killing or allowing my child to starve to death, again, the latter would be the option. It would be a very wrong thing to do, but i believe that most people would rather see a stranger die than their child, morally reprehensable or not.

I mean I would contract kill, not allow my child to starve!

then, like I said, the universal moral code would be do not kill 'unless you have to', do not prostitute yourself 'for no good reason', do not steal 'unless absolutely necessary'.