After a restless night........ I'm calling all those looking for a bit of intellectual stimulation

[Bugsy2]

WickedWaterWitch threw down the gauntlet last night & suggest that MN lacked intellectual rigour these days. She told me to start an intellectual debate.
After a restless night of blonde fretting & much whistling of the air through that little challenged bodypart (my brain) I have come up with the following:
MORALITY: What is it? Where is it to be found? Does it vary or is it absolute? Please discuss.....

Well, now that case is solved, we can all go home for cheese and chutney sandwiches!

Ah yes but in a State where there is a welfare system in place (usually totalitarian) and no one would techincally starve those morals would be moot

Ok, But then would other people see the necessity in your actions?

Would it be ok to prostitute yourself to buy your child clothes, if you had no other way of obtaining them? Or an education, or healthcare?

What I mean is, some people would draw the line quicker than others, so I don't think there is a universal code.

Ah yes, but would it be morally better to steal the clothes than prostitute yourself?

If you prostitute yourself then it is only yourself that is affected; if you steal clothes then you also affect the person that you steal from.

oh I don't know. brain isn't working, home ill and missing an exam.

I think most people would agree it is ok to do anything to get your child basic things like food, clothes, shelter, as long as there was really no other way. And ok to do anything to get yourself the same things. Not ok to go to the same extremes to get non essentials like eductation.

education, what I need

Isn't education essential???

nope, you wont die without it will you?

morals would be a set of SELF imposed rules. we get these rules via our parents and experiences -those experiences will for some of us include a faith or religeous system and do include the media.

thats why (i believe) that there are usually wide spread rules from country to country where people inspite of what the law may say believe roughly the same things...like killing is wrong.

what does interest me is where these personal moral values go all antwhacky.......like the killing of young boys in wars.

of particular interest are modern day society massacres - where whole swathes of people will murder people they have lived with, their neighbours their school chums - or the chopping up of children with machetties in rwanda or cutting off the breast of women who had just given birth leaving both her and her child to die slowly etc.... becuase ..err... dunno. where did their personal morality go and how was this influenced to change people to do and perform such barbaric tasks - especially when they once lived ith the other section of society.

excellent question bloody excellent

But if it is ok to do anything to get yourself shelter, why does the law not look kindly upon homeless people who squat in empty houses?

because the law is wrong in that situation.

I think morality is applied until the situation of the person applying it changes.

and because there are plenty of other ways for a homeless person to get shelter in this country.

In this country yes, but I do think applied morality is more to do with the comfort of the majority than the needs of the minority.

Just Googled "morality" and read a big theological discussion about it. One of the theories on morality says that it is a code that an individual signs up to, to justify or rationalise his/her behavious & is infinitely variable.

morality - is the difference between what we believe we should do to be a good person. and what we would need to to to survive. there are very litle moral values left when you are down to protecting the existance f your life or someone you love dearly.

this is why movies like that one where ,..i think it was samual L jackson took a doctor hostage to save his kid...cant rememberthe film...but thats why these films are so great becuase it f8cks with your morality system.

Personal morality is effected by the situation, like Custardo pointed out, those who massacre others from the community. Is this a case of fear overcoming any other feelings? Of self protection against others who may "forget" their morals for whatever reason.

I think morality does alter depending on where we live, I think religion does play a large part in it. The whole scenario of honour killings by male members of the family shows this.

LR - what about the man's wife? Because he's paying does it mean that it's not adultery? What if you've got something contagious from your immoral lifestyle that you pass on to her through him?

Also, on the subject of clothes, is it immoral to buy a cheap t-shirt when you know you're supporting child labour?

Good point PG, ok so that would effect others, guess I was thinking only from the prostitutes POV.

Yes, it would be immoral to buy a t shirt produced through child labour, if you were aware of it, and if this was aginst your morals, IYSWIM!!

OK.

So what if we boycott the t-shirts, and the organisations providing them pull out of region.

The children lose their jobs, the family their income & they have to go back to begging and living a difficult life on the streets. Is it really morally right for us to judge what's best for these people?

No I don't think it is right for us to judge what thesep peolple do, though it may be morally right to be appalled at the conditions in which these people work.

My dad would say that your last point is exactly right; without the sweatshops would these children have any work, therefore money and all that comes with it.

this cheapo t-shirt scenario - is close to my heart. recently i started a thread after i bought a t towel from asda for 20p at the moment ofpurchase ithought " bloody bargain" then later i wondered how my purchase had contributed to keeping poor people poor in other countries.

my personal moral standards dictate that if i have enough money, i should be more aware o how i spend it and to whom i am giving that money and to be politically aware of how they are using that money.

however, whilst my morals were the same as the above when i didn't have a lot of money - i put my ideals to one side becuase my family and its survival came before global principles.

in effect i found i had to have a bit of money to be able to excersise the right to shop more wizely and more politically.

a good example ithink of how ideal and moralstandards get put to one side when basic need comes into play.

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