Munchausens by proxy (made up illnesses)

[Lovernotafighter83]

myself and several other people strongly believe someone in our family suffers from Munchausens Disorder (faking illnesses).

We’ve thought it for many years and there’s a wealth of concerning evidence. Said person is family by marriage and other than this, a totally lovely person.

For many years there’s been illness after illness after illness, even operations which we have questioned whether they were needed. There’s just too many to list. Every single conversation is medical and about something that is currently going on - it’s exhausting, but we’re all polite and respectful and of course, everyone gets ill at times, so some of it will be genuine, I’m sure.

However, children have since come along and we’re now starting to notice this with them (so this would be Munchausens by Proxy).

What does one do with this situation? I don’t feel at all I can confront this without there being family consequences. It’s not my business or my place, but whose is it? The medical professionals don’t seem to be putting 2&2 together.

The latest is that said person has been told their 4 year old has ‘severe’ ADHD (even though no test will be done until 6/7) they they should claim DLA and consider a blue badge due to the child being a flight risk. Has anyone else had this advice before?

I have been through this process, my view is that no medical professional would say this about a 4 year old who frankly, has no glaringly obvious symptoms (but I’m sure behind closed doors there are testing times).

I have no idea what to do.

if you google child safeguarding portal and the name of your county, you can report your concerns. It will be listed as fabricated illness, you do need to do this if you have significant concerns.

Difficult situation for you OP, but this needs to be escalated. My sisters (ex) friend did jail time for fabricating illnesses in her son. The local A&E dept said in the notes (during his final visit) that if she comes with the child again to call the police. Lo and behold, she did.

I would be cautious with your judgements. Some people do have illness after illness after illness.

That was/is my DS.

He eventually got diagnosed with a rare genetic disease when he was 11. Once we got the diagnosis, we were able to get information about treatment and how to manage the disease (as of yet there is no "cure"). Up until the diagnosis (which included $60,000 of genetic testing...we got on a clinical trial), I had had multiple medical professionals, teachers, mental health professionals and family and friends accusing him and me of making up his symptoms and exagerating his medical needs.

I will never forgive those people for gaslighting us instead of offering much needed support, and in the case of the medical professionals doing their job of figuring out what was actually medically going on. Luckily I had a science background and a famous scientist father and managed to figure it out (with the help of google and a colleague of my father's) and got my DS the help he needed. At the time of his diagnosis, there wasn't even a diagnosis code for his disease....that didn't come until 5 years later and now 14 years later, the symptoms are recognized by some GP's.
The reports that "helpful" people made to Social Services only served to delay my DS' diagnosis and treatment and traumatize us as a family.

Bear in mind that DS's disease is genetic and therefore if he were to have children they might have some symptoms as well. As it turns out, there are many related illnesses that do exist in my extended family that no one talked about because it wasn't done in the old days.
Maybe try talking to and supporting your family member instead of judging them because you weren't told/don't understand the science/medicine of what's going on and don't think the relative and/or their child "looks" sick. (My DS has had a blue badge since he was 12 and very rarely "looks" sick to the average person.)

In a past life I worked with a fabricated illness case as a child protection social worker. It was a very difficult case as it can be extremely hard to prove or disprove but it is a safeguarding issue.

genuinely think this is more common than we think…..the number of people whose personality is medical complaints, theirs or kids, is staggering.

I would definitely report this, even if the parent doesn’t physically directly harm their child there can be psychological harm from this kind of thing. It may be nothing but I think if it’s a pattern of behaviour thats now extending to their children then it should be flagged. Does their spouse say anything about it?

Sometimes I think people might think that about me and my kids we’ve had so many hospital visits and stays but they are all genuine

It has a new name, Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another (FDIA)

Agreed!

Its so hard because some people like myself have a lot of medical conditions, also health anxiety can sometimes look like this but if you are genuinely concerned then report her

I think you need to be very very very very sure before you accuse anything- they used to say autism couldn’t be diagnosed before a certain age, but it can be diagnosed in toddlers now. The school used to not believe my son had ear infections constantly despite doctors letters and medical certs (and him begging for them to ring me). I have a friend who turned out to have me after years of people telling her she was overdramatic when she said she was exhausted. Worse still a colleague of my friend was never believed about being under the weather. He went on illness leave because he felt harassed while feeling sicker and sicker. A week after he went on leave he died, they found he had cancer absolutely everywhere. His wife is suing doctors and his workplace. Women have been disbelieved forever, kids’ illnesses and issues have been fobbed off forever. And yes some people are paranoid, or make their health their hobby etc etc. just be sure before you alienate someone who actually needs you

Not commenting on the other bits, but you definitely can get DLA and a blue badge even without any official diagnoses. So that part may well be true.

This may be an American term, but in the UK in safeguarding and healthcare practice it is referred to as FII (Fabricated or Induced Illness) and is - rightfully - classed as a form of child abuse.

I think this new term is to distinguish it from Munchausen syndrome which still stands as a term for a psychological condition where the person feigns or inflicts illness themselves.

OP if you have concerns FII is occurring for this child you must report it to your local Safeguarding Hub

said person has a bookcase full of medical books and had openly said they have in the past defaulted to sub merging themselves in this kind of information.

the illnesses range from being related to completely and utterly unrelated. Cancer (scares), surgery, neuro, there’s just so many. Theres not a single conversation where it’s not dominated by a new thing.

there’s definite childhood trauma. He would never ever hurt children in the conventional way. It’s so very confusing how someone can talk constantly about so many new things for so many years.

Totally agree - it’s very common and very difficult to prove.

It is a massive massive problem that can be seen day in day out in A&E, in GP surgeries and ambulance services; and even on here lots and lots of posters with lots of fabricated illness.

Im not sure there is anything you can do.

It is not clear whether you are more concerned about the child or about the mother?
i do not want to antagonise you OP but if the mother wants to claim DLA and a blue badge, then so what? It is hardly the first person to inflate a concern to access some benefits and it is all about paperwork for the adults, not intrusive medical procedures for the child.

in case of perplexing presentation, professionals will need to evidence the harm done to the child (physical and or emotional). You do not seem to talk about this in your post.

Finally, it is very inappropriate to give your own opinion about what a medical professional may have or may have not said… I wonder if instead you might approach the mother and be curious about her and her childs experience? A supportive ear and a cup of tea offered can really help manage anxiety (health and otherwise)..

Saying that, there is a child that may need to be safeguarded and the appropriate route would be for you to complete a safeguarding referral about a perplexing presentation. Then it would be up to social care to open the case or not. Just google the name or you council and safeguarding referral. It is quite straightforward.

Safeguarding issue that your suspicion must be reported your local council should have a website where you can report

Reading this has reminded me of my Dds best friend growing up.

I cannot list the number of medical conditions she has been diagnosed with over the years, many of them psychiatric, but some physical too.

There is a very strong enmeshed codependency that this has created between mother and daughter and there is absolutely no doubt that the mother gets a lot of her attention needs met through engaging in this behaviour.

It was called out directly in the open by a gynae once but the mother just pulled her from that gynae and went elsewhere and that particular illness just disappeared into the ether.

She allowed the child just to leave and school eventually and now as an adult she is entirely housebound and living at home.

There is literally nothing anyone can do now. It has gone way past any form of intervention or sanity and the daughter is fully bought into it now.

Can confirm no professional will test for adhd before the age of 6, most places is 7 or 8.
If your concerned talk to your local social services about your concerns.

please report to SS asap. I worked many years ago at a hospital in Stoke on trent where they did covert filming and a number of parents were prosecuted following evidence that showed them harming their children ( hence the association with Munchausens by proxy). I would rather report and perhaps get someone support before actions become serious.

If you have concerns, report it. It does happen that people make this stuff up.

However, it also happens that people do have medical issues where their tests are normal and they are dismissed (especially women), yet something is going on. It can sometimes take decades to get a diagnosis, if they ever do. I don't automatically disbelieve people because we do know our own bodies.

If you don’t feel comfortable going to social services, could you maybe contact the kids school

It’s not really a school issue. School would give the same advice for the OP to report their concern to their local authority safeguarding hub. It is not school’s place to do this on behalf of the OP, when there is nothing concrete to report other than another person’s suspicion.

I'm sure this is true. I have someone in my own family whose entire existence is totally dominated by their supposed ill-health. If they really suffered from every illness they insist they have, they’d be completely incapacitated - actually, they wouldn’t be here at all. It’s unnerving to watch as every single conversation is steered round to the inevitable topic. This person was also in an enmeshed relationship with their mother and health/illness was the common ground. They proceeded to replicate it with their own children, sadly.

This is so similar to someone I know that I wondered for a moment if it was the same person. But they are a bit older and the drop out of education occurred at university.
Now entirely housebound living with her mother. The marriage collapsed years ago. Numerous hospitals, doctors, different diagnoses, treatments, scans, medication. The underlying condition is a vague 'syndrome' with no cure. The daughter had a circle of close friends who were naturally keen to support and visit her when she returned from university to live at home. And this is the telling bit for me - the mother kept them all away. They tried for years but the mother always had some reason or excuse why it wasn't possible and they have, understandably, moved on with their own lives.

The daughter, now in her late 20s, has no 'real life' friends. Once a creative and sporty, active girl she spends her time online. She is never left alone in the house (despite her 'condition' not having any risk of falls or fits) and leaves only for medical appointments in a wheelchair accompanied by her mother.

It's a tragedy. But it has gone on so long now and the two are so enmeshed that I can't see there being any kind of intervention.