Nursery says the extras aren’t included in the funded hours but I never realised it would cost this much

[Yluna47]

My ds is 2 and has been at nursery since January. He goes 3 days a week while im at work and generally he loves it there, runs in without looking back at me most mornings so no issues with the actual nursery.

He’s eligible for the funded hours now and I thought it would make a decent difference to what we pay but honestly im a bit shocked by the latest invoice. I know its not completely free and I wasn’t expecting to pay nothing but I thought we’d be saving more than we are.

Before the funding we were paying around £610 a month for the 3 days. Now its just over £360. Which is obviously a saving but when I looked at the breakdown there’s £250 for the extra hours, £55 for meals and snacks, £35 consumables and £20 activities. I thought some of this would be included in the funded hours but apparently not.

The meals one is annoying because you have to pay it, they don’t let you send food from home. The consumables is apparently things like wipes, nappies, suncream and craft stuff. He’s potty training so doesn’t use many nappies now and I do wonder what we’re paying for some months, but I know they still have things to buy for all the children. The activities charge is for things like music sessions and other things they do during the week.

I did read the paperwork when he started but if im honest I didn’t properly understand all the funding stuff. It said there would be additional charges and I signed it, so I know I can’t really say I wasn’t told anything. I just didn’t realise it would still be this much once the funding kicked in. I think I assumed the funded hours would come off the bill and then we’d pay for whatever hours were left, but it seems to work differently.

My partner thinks we should just leave it alone because ds is settled there and we both work, so what else are we supposed to do. He’s not wrong really. I don’t want to move him somewhere else just to save money when he’s happy and knows everyone. But £360 a month is still a lot for us and I was hoping we’d be able to put some of that money away instead.

I’ve asked another mum at nursery what she pays and she said hers was cheaper but her child only goes two days and I don’t know if she’s getting the same hours as us. I don’t really want to start asking everyone what they’re paying because it feels a bit nosy.

Are these charges normal? I know nursery staff need paying and the funding doesn’t cover everything but I can’t get my head around the fact its advertised as funded hours and there’s still so much to pay. Can you ask to opt out of the extras or would they just tell you to find another nursery? Has anyone actually managed to get their bill reduced without changing childcare completely?

Normal at our son’s nursery other than we provide our own nappies and wipes, could you suggest this if you think it should amount to less than £35?

Are you using the tax free childcare account if you are eligible? If not, it’s worth looking into as could save you 20% on your invoice. www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare

It's all a con.
The government claims to fund, but pays under the required rate.
The nurseries aren't allowed to charge top up fees, but are allowed to charge for these extras, so they do. It is the only way to make the books balance.

Very normal. Sadly the government funding is no where high enough for childcare settings to cover their overheads.

Many of them need to invent charges or impose rules that mean parents make up the shortfall.

That’s cheap compared to ours. We pay £900 a month for 4 days even with the funded hours and tax free childcare.

The govt should be clear that it’s a subsidy and that’s all. The description of ‘free hours’ gives a false idea of what you’re going to get.

im an ‘oldie’ so when my children were in nursery there were no subsidies at all - we had to pay the full whack from when paid maternity leave ended (which was 12 weeks when I had my first) until they started school. It was crippling. So I fully support anything which reduces childcare costs; I just think the way this is marketed gives a false impression. If you had been told you’d have a £250 discount every month on your nursery fees, you’d be chuffed, but unfortunately because it’s advertised as free hours, it sets people up to feel disappointed. I really wish the govt would be transparent about it. It’s obviously still a good thing that it’s subsidised - but they shouldn’t ’mis-sell’ it

We’re on £1200 pcm with funded hours and tax free childcare. It’s an insane amount of money.

This is totally normal especially for a good quality nursery. The tiny amount of funding they get for the funded hours doesn't come anywhere near the real cost of the service you want. You just have to suck it up and pay really. You can't expect the business to run at a loss.

You can look around for a different nursery with lower charges but they will have less good facilities, less nice surroundings, may may have a heavier reliance on less experienced "apprentice" staff members, fewer enrichment activities and all the other consequences of being run on an absolute shoestring.

The statutory guidance says that they can charge for these extras but that they must offer a “reasonable alternative” so that you can access the free hours without paying these charges.
The guidance lists sending in a packed lunch or your own nappies etc as examples of reasonable alternatives. Food is a bit tricky because some places argue there’s an allergy risk to sending in your own food. They’d struggle to argue that sending in your own nappies and wipes is unreasonable though.

When we were shown around our preschool the manager was very upfront that the funding was around half of what they needed to run as a business. Its ridiculous and after viewing a few nurseries I'm sure it leads to a gap in the education children receive at this age.

85% of "funded" places lose money for the nursery. If they didn't find work arounds they would be paying to look after the children. It's not a "con" to make more money. It's a "con" to make the broken system work.

yeah I might ask about taking our own nappies and wipes, he’s hardly using them now anyway so not sure what the £35 is actually covering. I dont mind paying for stuff they use but would be good to know what it actually is.

We do use tax free childcare yes, forgot to mention that. thanks though, it does help a bit.

Agreed. The government aren’t paying enough money to nurseries though the funding scheme and quite a few closed down around my area. The remaining ones had to add a fee to remain open.

Plenty of PPs have commented to tell you what the money is covering. Its the cost of caring for your child. Staff, heating, the building, training, etc. They can't charge you a top up so this is the way they get around it. If they don't they would lose money for each funded child and have to close.

So it's £4320 per year for childcare that enables your partner and you to work? Do you get child benefit? If so put that towards the childcare costs so you and husband are paying less than 3k p.a for childcare. I think that's a very good deal.

Sounds like a bargain to me, and he is happy there, something money can't buy.

it’s cheaper than ours would be if we did 3 days even with the funded hours.

Ours is about £280 for 2 days a week and then we get the tax free discount.

There are settings we could move DC too that would cost less, in the £60 region but they aren’t as good so we choose to pay more and keep them where they are.

The government rate isn’t enough to cover everything it costs to run a nursery. They have to make up the difference some how.

£360 for 3 days is an absolute bargain. The government funding isn't enough to keep the nursery going. Think of all the costs, staffing, training, heat, water etc. I was paying £1400 for full time 10 years ago when there was no funding, and nearly £900 when she was 3 with funding so although not "free" now you're definitely getting a better deal. I really can't imagine you'd get this level of care cheaper anywhere else in the UK!

Wow where do you live? We get 30 funded hours, pro-rated across the year. Our DC goes to nursery 3 days a week and the final bill is £766 per month. I’d take your £360 any day.

A friend used a childminder and sent nappies and packed lunch and her bill was £0, so there are ways to make it work but the nursery works for us and don’t want to change now.

Yes £360 seems really reasonable tbh. When we got funded hours I was paying about £1500 per month for 2 children 3 days a week, it was £2000 per month before that. I didn’t make any money returning to work after maternity leave, but as time has gone on the childcare costs get less.

If you want the nursery to stay open, you need to pay them an amount that actually covers their costs, plus profit because they're a business. The free hours are free to you but cause a loss to the nursery.

£360 for 3 days a week so approximately 12 days of care a month is roughly £30 a day, less than £5 an hour. I genuinely can't see why you would be annoyed at paying so little for your child to attend a setting you say he enjoys.

Exactly this. If they didn’t find something to over-inflate, to get you (and everyone else on the funded hours) to pay more money then they’d have to close as they wouldn’t be able to cover their costs.

You’ll be charged similarly everywhere. They use the charges to fill the shortfall because funding isn’t actually enough.

Basically, you’re getting childcare for £3 per hour. If the staff are being paid minimum wage, the cost to the employer is actually around £15 per hour. If there are 10 children in a room, that needs 2 staff minimum, so staff costs would be £30 per hour, £300 for a 10 hour day. 10 children @£3 per hour would bring in an income of £300. So the nursery breaks even before any of the additional costs are taken into consideration.
That’s what you’re paying for.

Our nursery charges more for extra hours than the equivalent for those who don’t get funding. So the extra days for kids who get funding costs more than what we pay for our non-funded days.