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Nurseries

Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum. For more guidance on early years development, sign up for Mumsnet Ages & Stages emails.

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Original poster

Funded Hours at a private nursery

42 replies

SarahJinx · 17/07/2014 08:32

Hi. I'm hoping someone can can give me a bit of a steer on this please.

DS was three in May, so his free hours start in September. He attends a private nursery in a prep school, a full day is 8.30 - 3.30 and he goes twice a week, so fourteen hours. I expected to have to pay for lunch. I have just received the invoice for next term, they are charging us two hours every day. I've queried and the bursar has said that the maximum grant per day is five hours. Is that correct? And, if it isn't, what can I do about it?

Really appreciate any help.

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HSMMaCM · 17/07/2014 17:29

It is different everywhere, but if they offer their funded sessions in five hour blocks, then it's correct for them.

BikeRunSki · 17/07/2014 17:34

this

BikeRunSki · 17/07/2014 17:38

Although 5 hours seems a strange period for a funded session. 3 is more normal.

snozzlemaid · 17/07/2014 21:18

Check with your local authority. Ours pay up to 10 hours a day so you could have 14 spread over 2 days here in Cornwall.

BellaOfTheBalls · 17/07/2014 21:23

I think how the funded hours are taken varies by establishment. It might be by LEA. DS1's first preschool was open 5 hours a day, 4 days a week. You could only use all your funded hours there if you paid for the fourth day of the week. We then moved & his next nursery stated you had to do either 5 x 3 or 3 x 5 hour sessions. DS2's preschool you pick and choose whatever suits your needs!

Sarahkk46 · 17/07/2014 23:14

15 hours are for nurseries that are term time only, 10 hours are for nurseries who are open throughout the year. It was explained to me that the hourly rate of a nursery is around 6-8 per hour but the government only pay around 3.40 so parents have to top up the difference

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 17/07/2014 23:50

Bike, my private nursery does 2.5 h in the morning and 2.5h in the afternoon, so making 5 h per day.

Only1scoop · 17/07/2014 23:55

At our private nursery dd does 6 hours per day 3 days per week. We just pay the 3 hours per week during term time but obviously full amount in hols.

BackforGood · 17/07/2014 23:58

Not exactly Sarahkk - the funding is Education funding, so for term time only, but can - and is - used at all the Nurseries that are open all year round. The 'norm' is the nursery is open all yr round, but the 'funded children' attend term time only, but I do understand there are some individual private arrangements made between Nurseries and parents who prefer to have a fixed amount going out each month, so they 'adjust the figures' accordingly.

BackforGood · 17/07/2014 23:59

Also, although you are right about the 'per hour' payment usually being lower than the fees parents would pay (this amount varies between LAs) the Nursery are not allowed (legally) to ask for 'top up payments' from parents.

snozzlemaid · 18/07/2014 07:48

In our area you can have the 15 hours over the 38 weeks or if you want it all year you can have 11 hours a week over 51 weeks.
And like BackforGood says they are not allowed to ask for top ups for the funded hours. I know that some do though.

Original poster

SarahJinx · 19/07/2014 11:27

Thanks all. Bursar says that sessions ARE three hourly, but because funded hour rates are so low they need parents to pay the extra bit to cover extras like snacks etc....

If we want him to stay there we have no choice, he can't just attended for the funded hours and they don't 'share' with other childcare facilities so we're going to waste five of our fifteen.

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BackforGood · 19/07/2014 11:44

Again - setting can split the 15 hours. This happens regularly.
It's this particular nursery that is not following the rules.
Of course - knowing they are breaking the rules is only useful to you if you have alternatives that work for you.

SoonToBeSix · 19/07/2014 11:48

You don't need to waste them you could send him in for five hours in the other day , it is after all meant to be education for your ds not childcare for you.

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/07/2014 11:49

I'm pretty sure the 15 hours belong to you so the setting couldn't stop you using 5 elsewhere, but you'd need to arrange it.

SoonToBeSix · 19/07/2014 11:51

Sorry my post sounded rude reading it back I didn't meAnt it that way I was just trying to give the facts. It usa pain if the nursery can't be flexible but they aren't actually breaking any rules it is up to individual nurseries if they want to split the 15 hours over three days.

unlucky83 · 19/07/2014 12:16

In Scotland so might be a bit different - but I do the funding for a pre-school group. (And its changing from Sept - cos of 600hrs - 40 mins more a day)
We have to sign a really detailed contract....there are lots of rules we have to follow - and slight differences between different councils.
Children are (were) funded for 5 x 2.5hr sessions per week - they had to have a break of at least 1hr between the educational (funded) sessions and no more than 2 sessions per day - so a child in for a whole day would be eligible for one morning and one afternoon session.
Some councils won't do splits between providers - so you have to use all your funding with one group.
Our council will allow splits but only of 3:2 sessions - so you can have 3 sessions with one and 2 with another provider. But they won't fund just one session at a provider - you can't do a 4:1 split (so if you use 4 sessions for 2 full days with one provider you lose the 5th session)...
And it is only in term time!
Usual for full time nurseries here they charge you the full amount and refund all the funding they receive directly to you.

And it is paid per term - there is a cut off a couple of weeks into the term and after that you can't move the funding to someone else - original provider gets it even if you leave the day after that week - you can't transfer it to someone else mid-term have to wait till the next term...

In theory you could take your child to just the funded periods - and it should be completely free.

The best thing for you to do is ask your local council directly ...the Nursery should give you the number - or phone and ask to speak to early years education...

Original poster

SarahJinx · 19/07/2014 13:12

Thanks, that's what I'm trying to decipher really backforgood if they are making up rules. It's a funny old place, an independent prep school, the nursery is a feeder nursery into the school so they tend to do what they want.

I realise that the funding is for education, not for us thanks, but hate when I feel like I'm being made to pay for stuff that should be free and just want to determine if they are 'allowed' to do what they're doing. I'll talk to the lea I think.

It isn't their policy to share funding either, so I either rethink his attendance (I'm on mat leave so don't really want him attending more), or accept that we'll waste the hours.

OP posts:

Original poster

SarahJinx · 19/07/2014 13:15

Trouble is, I think if I rock the boat by asking about splitting funding etc they'll just ask us to leave and I'm not sure of that's what I want.

OP posts:

SoonToBeSix · 19/07/2014 13:43

I am not sure that you are allowed to "waste" the hours the nursery has to keep a strict registrar for the lea or the don't get paid.

SoonToBeSix · 19/07/2014 13:44

They can't ask you to leave .

unlucky83 · 19/07/2014 14:15

You need to find out the rules from the council before you decide anything ...it is a minefield! Asking for clarification directly is not rocking the boat!
Like I said in our case it is the council who have decided how long a session is etc - and how/if those can be split - and also some councils don't allow splitting at all...

Original poster

SarahJinx · 19/07/2014 19:33

That's my plan unlucky just to find out what's what, before deciding what to do.

I have had clarity from the nursery owners, they've made themselves and their policies pretty clear, of the 14 hours per week that he attends, only 10 will be funded. They wont share the hours so that's it. Those hours equate to around £350 for the term.

That's their position, they may well be able to do that, I'll see what the LEA say, my point is also that if they aren't, what to do with that information.

OP posts:

Original poster

SarahJinx · 19/07/2014 20:43

That's my plan unlucky just to find out what's what, before deciding what to do.

That's their position, they may well be able to do that, I'll see what the LEA say, my point is also that if they aren't, what to do with that information.

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Realitybitesyourbum · 19/07/2014 20:50

What so you mean? They won't share the hours? You mean you can't use the 4 hours you have left over somewhere else? That isn't correct. I use 11 hours in one nursery and 4 in a preschool. On the actually form you will in , there is a space where you can fill in the second second setting you may be using. Have you filled in the form you gave you? They cannot dictate what you do with your hours. Just fill in 11 for their form and put your child in another setting and claim 4 in that setting. It's what I do.

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