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Original poster

Urgent Help Needed - just found out expensive sink is chipped .. what are my rights

27 replies

Twiglett · 13/07/2005 10:27

Franke sink delivered 24/6 I checked it and it looked ok

Bloke has just taken it out of the box to measure it for worksurface and the underside is chipped

I emailed the company I bought it from and they have replied

Dear Sir/Madam,

After this length of time we are unable to help. Please see below from our
terms and conditions.

"Shipping And Handling For delivery details call 01273 813983. The cost of
the goods includes the cost of shipping within mainland UK Only. UK
deliveries are usually made within 5 days. ON DELIVERY PLEASE THOROUGHLY
INSPECT THE GOODS AND REPORT DAMAGES AND/OR SHORTAGES IMMEDIATELY. Damaged
items will only be replaced provided the defect is notified to us within 24
hours of receipt of goods. We cannot accept liability for damages or errors
if goods have been fitted. Damage, faults or errors must be reported within
24 hours by phone and confirmed via email to [email protected].
In the unlikely event of damage, fault or error you will be entitled to an
exchange or full refund.."

I feel sick .. how should I reply to this email .. I have asked them to phone me

OP posts:
ZoeC · 13/07/2005 10:49

I would check with citizens advice as I'd have thought if it was faulty they're liable, but at least by ringing the ca you'd know your legal standing and be able to form your response based on that.

Good luck.

Original poster
Twiglett · 13/07/2005 10:50

Is there any legal standpoint I can take in terms of demanding an exchange for faulty goods

we did check it over but the chip is in the underside at the corner and only visible when you turn it upside down which we were told was not necessary by delivery driver

please .. can anyone help??

OP posts:
Freckle · 13/07/2005 11:07

When you ordered the sink, were you shown their terms and conditions? If not, then they cannot be notified to you retrospectively. Did you sign that the goods were OK? When you say you checked it, did you remove it from the box completely?

I don't think firms can limit their liability in the way they are seeking, but, given the amount of time since delivery, it will be a question of evidence, i.e. that it wasn't damaged after delivery.

SoupDragon · 13/07/2005 11:09

Will it be visible when it's installed or will it cause problems at all?

Original poster
Twiglett · 13/07/2005 11:29

the fitters say they can fill it with sealant .. but I will still see it .. IYKWIM

I am furious and upset and trying to desperately to remain calm and reasonable with them (I have sent them back a fairly pleasant email)

OP posts:
LIZS · 13/07/2005 11:38

Have a look here . Sales of Goods Act 1979. Think their 24 hours to reject as faulty isn't enforceable as it is could be argued as not "reasonable" (see under 1) Full Refund section) whereas logically time of installation could be. Think the legislation is vague though so good luck.

Original poster
Twiglett · 13/07/2005 11:41

CAB said it isn't enforceable and is doesn't 'supercede my statutory rights'

OP posts:
ZoeC · 13/07/2005 12:43

good luck in getting a replacement then twiglett - sounds like you're legally entitled tbh. where I work we've replaced stuff even when there's been quite a while, where people haven't assembled it due to decorating and things - its' not always easy to get things out and check them properly when you're not ready to install them.

2GIRLS · 13/07/2005 13:08

I don't think they can enforce the 24 hour thing, TBH. Something about statutory rights (?) It hasn't been that long and considering what the delivery man said I think you have a good case for replacement.
Trading Standards might be better than CAB, but IMO neither really know what they are talking about as they only get their info from books and things as and when a problem arises if that makes sense.
You're better looking it up yourself, look at trading standards website (sorry don't know what it is) for the law and your rights.

Original poster
Twiglett · 13/07/2005 13:46

right .. they are totally refusing to do anything about it

but mastercard says they'll take the money back out of their account .. so at least all avenues aren't closed

wish me luck ..I'm about to order a replacement from another company (I might end up losing out a few hundred pounds here if it doesn't work out for us)

DO NOT USE TITANIC-SINKS.CO.UK

OP posts:
starlover · 13/07/2005 14:17

tbh i don't think you;ll have much luck.

because a) they have stated their terms and conditions (which presumably were available for you to tread before purchase)
b) you checked and signed to say that it was ok

starlover · 13/07/2005 14:17

to read... not to tread.. obviously!

Original poster
Twiglett · 13/07/2005 14:48

but according to CAB and Mastercard that term is unenforceable and does not supercede my statutory rights

I will take it to court if I have to because I'm a stubborn sod

(didn't sign anything, all done by email)

OP posts:
lemonice · 13/07/2005 15:01

I think their terms and conditions can improve your rights beyond Statute but not lessen them

starlover · 13/07/2005 15:31

hmm i guess it's a case of proving t was faulty on arrival then.

lemonice · 13/07/2005 15:36

I think the remediation has to be proportionate so if it is not normally visible and doesn't affect the integrity of the item then they may not have to refund or replace fully.

Original poster
Twiglett · 13/07/2005 15:53

the item is still in its original packaging and has not been fitted hence I see no issue with them taking it back and returning it to manufacturer as faulty goods .. the chip would be visible if fitted and I also think it probably lessens the strength of the overall sink

I am so very fed up but ever grateful for the people here

OP posts:
SofiaAmes · 14/07/2005 01:16

I would make a reasonable effort at resolving it with the original company before ordering from another company, otherwise it may come back to haunt you. Maybe give them an ultimatum saying that if they do not make arrangements to replace the faulty item by xx/xx then you will refuse the credit card charges and repurchase from another company. It does sound like the CAB is right as I think you should have 28 days to return something by statutory right and the sellers cannot reduce this even if they say they are going to and get you to sign something to that effect. If the sink isn't installed and you still have the original packing, I think you have a pretty good argument.

Freckle · 14/07/2005 07:04

I'd also threaten them (and do it) with Trading Standards. This is just the sort of thing they get involved with.

Original poster
Twiglett · 14/07/2005 08:16

thank you

the last email I sent them gave them a cut-off of close of business yesterday to confirm that they would exchange the sink within 5 working days and I told them I'd contacted Mastercard.

this is their response

"The credit card company will only refund your money if the goods have not been
delivered. We have a POD(Proof of delivery).
No further action is going to be taken regarding this matter.

Titanic Sinks"

OP posts:
SaintGeorge · 14/07/2005 09:22

Hope you get a good resolution to this one Twiglett, I agree that you should threaten them further with Trading Standards.

Titanic Sinks? Hmmm, is Twiglett going to be their iceberg?

sostressed · 14/07/2005 09:52

o

SofiaAmes · 14/07/2005 11:35

It sounds like there is something dodgy happening on their end. I am an architect and am not only involved in ordering lots of stuff, but am just finishing my own 7 bedroom house. When a situation like this came up, (several did), the seller generally communicates with the manufacturer and discusses with them what they are willing to do. For example I bought a matching bidet and toilet set. The toilet was delivered first and the bidet a week or two later. It was the official matching bidet, but it didn't look anything like the toilet. We came to a compromise with the seller (and they with the manufacturer) that they would take back the bidet and give us a full refund even though it had already been opened (but not installed) and was a custom order and therefore not normally returnable. And we used the toilet in another room that wasn't having a bidet and ordered a new really matching set for the first bathroom. It took a bit of back and forth between me and the sellers and the manufacturers, but in the end everyone was happy.
I guess part of the problem here is doing business with an internet company that you know nothing about. For the next time...we often tell our clients at work that although they might save a little bit by ordering the fixtures directly, in the end they don't save money, because it's them who have to deal with any problems (and there always are a few).

Here's another idea. How about contacting the manufacturer directly and let them know what's going on. Depending on the company, you might get some joy from them as they could put pressure on titanic or even exchange the sink directly for you.

lemonice · 14/07/2005 11:56

I agree with Sofia. I sell nursery furniture which is delivered and assembled in the consumer's home, if there is an issue then I liaise with my supplier until the issue is resolved as none of us wishes other than a happy outcome for each party. As a retailer I only buy through reputable channels (trial and error there!)where customer service is a priority. From time to time things do go wrong but the process has to be carried forward to the satisfaction of all sides.

Are your retailers bona fide Franke stockists?

SoupDragon · 14/07/2005 12:09

Haven't Mastercard already agreed to take the money back though?