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Lone parents

Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

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Original poster

Is it true...

32 replies

Wuxiapian · 13/01/2008 13:53

... that beacuse my father's son and I never married, he has no rights to our son unless he takes me to court to get parental rights?

We've been separated for 5 years now and, at first, he didn't seem to give a damn about out son.

Now, all of a sudden, "I'm his dad, I have rights".

At present, my ex has him every third weekend. My son isn't happy as he's never been close to his dad. I've tried explaining the upset this causes, but he's not very understanding saying that he's fine when he's there.

I don't want to have to force my son to go.
My family/friends say that I have the final say with matters concerning my son and if I decided that he doesn't go to his dads, he can't do a thing.

Can anyone shed any light?
Much thanks for reading.

OP posts:

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 13/01/2008 13:54

Is his name on your son's birth certificate?

Original poster

Wuxiapian · 13/01/2008 13:58

Yes, his name's on the birth certificate.

This makes a difference, then?

OP posts:

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 13/01/2008 14:00

I believe it does. I am not a expert sorry but to the best of my knowledge, that does give him some legal rights as he is offically declared as the father.

Someone else will advise you shortly I'm sure

benbenandme · 13/01/2008 14:43

I may be wrong, but I think ....

the law changed in Dec 2003 re. parental rights. As your child was born before then he wouldn't automatically have them as you weren't married BUT he could apply for them and would only be turned down if he is abusive to the child. However, I think you can't decide the child stops going, once the child is 7 (I think) he can choose himself but the court will always encourag them to see both parents unless their is a risk to them. Hope this helps and hope someone else can come along and confirm or tell me I've got it all wrong but thats what I seem to have picked up

Surfermum · 13/01/2008 14:45

I'm afraid your family and friends are wrong. If you decide to stop your son seeing his Dad, his Dad could go to Court and get a court order for contact every 3rd weekend. They may even give him more frequent contact if he asked for it. And this is whether you were married or not and whether he is on his birth certificate or not.

If he doesn't have parental responsibility you have the final say in which religion your son follows, which school he attends and medical matters. However, should your ex choose he could ask the court to grant him "parental responsibility" and then he would have an equal say.

Original poster

Wuxiapian · 13/01/2008 16:07

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

So, as it stands, I can stop him going to his dad's and he can't demand anything unless he gets "parental responsibility" which would grant him definite and regular contact?

My son really dislikes going there. I always try to make him feel better about going, but hate to see him so upset.

Advice much appreciated.

OP posts:

Tinkerbel6 · 13/01/2008 16:35

find out why your son dont like to go there and then work on it, sit down with your ex and discuss the reasons why, if it goes to court he will most probably get regular access and it could even be every other weekend, I wouldnt just stop your son from going there unless there was a proper reason like neglect or something.

Surfermum · 13/01/2008 17:05

No, that isn't it. A court order would grant him definite and regular contact.

Parental responsibility would grant him the right to have a say in medical, educational and religious matters.

He could have one without the other.

But Tinkerbel's right. Find out what is bothering your ds and sort that out, rather than stopping him having a relationship with his Dad. You really don't want to go down the road of Courts and court orders if you can help it. It's extremely stressfull for all involved, not least the child, is expensive and IME only serves to polarise the two parties even further.

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 14/01/2008 14:47

I greatly admire Pui and I am in love with Justin Fletcher.

I think so many years of CBeebies with the prospect of a great many more to come (due to DS's developmental delay) has addled my brain actually..

OverMyDeadBody · 14/01/2008 15:01

Why men always harp on about their rights but forget about their responsibilities?

OverMyDeadBody · 14/01/2008 15:02

or why do men...

Sorry am in mood today

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 14/01/2008 15:06

OMG.. I posted that on completely the wrong thread! PLEASE ignore me..

[slinks aways]

OverMyDeadBody · 14/01/2008 17:07

I was wondering what you where on about shiny!

mummyfantastico · 14/01/2008 22:38

Does he have your son all weekend? Could he have him for a few hours every 3rd weekend and build it up as they get to know each other?

Original poster

Wuxiapian · 14/01/2008 23:33

My son's not close to his father, at all.

When we were together, he was always working, which is fair enough, but even when he had time, he wasn't bothered about spending any quality time with us.

When we split, we didn't hear anything from him for quite some time.

He's never once called just to say hello to see how our son is. He's never once even showed his face at the school!

He pays no child support, but lives out in a converted barn and has a whole host of flash cars!

This sudden interest is quite unnerving!

Yes, mummy, he collects him on friday evening and brings him home sunday afternoon/evening every 3rd weekend. He initially demanded to have him every other weekend, but I stuck my heels in and explained the upset it causes and basically told him no, until he's feeling more comfortable with that idea - which, of course he still isn't!

OP posts:

Tinkerbel6 · 15/01/2008 12:31

have you been to the csa or tried to claim maintenance in any way?, seems a bit of a cheek to demand to have more time with his son but not quick enough putting his hands in his pockets to support him

Original poster

Wuxiapian · 15/01/2008 16:35

I had dealings with the CSA when ex and I separated 5 years ago.

Filled in all the forms with details of when ex has him and of ex's businesses (that I know of), etc, etc, etc.

Rang them 3/4 times to try chase it up to be told each time that they have no records of him!

It's a total pain in the ass - he is, too! I wouldn't mind so much if he wasn't minted!

So, yes, his demands are really beginning to grate on my nerves.

Guess I could try the CSA again?

OP posts:

brandy7 · 15/01/2008 16:40

personally think the huge gap between visits is why your son is reluctant to go to his dads, and sleeping 2 nights in a strange house is a bit much straight off.

how old is your son?

could your ex perhaps take him out for the day once a week so they can get to know each other more then progress to overnights when your son is ready?

FlllightAttendant · 15/01/2008 16:41

How old is your son, Wuxiapian?

It can take a fair while for the courts to grant access/PR IIRC, and in that time your son may turn 7 and thence have more of a say. I really feel for you having this to contend with - some people are very, very selfish when it comes to their children.

FlllightAttendant · 15/01/2008 16:50

Fwiw I think you should bear in mind that the CSA and access/PR are not in any way linked. So getting onto the CSA won't affect anything to do with your ex seeing his son etc. and vice versa.

If you say to your ex that you are not prepared to put your son through this sort of upset and he clearly isn't happy to spend nights at his house, and try to work out a compromise whereby you agree to do something that your son would be comfortable with, (Have a chat with DS and ask him what that might be?) you will indeed hold all the cards as you would be perfectly within your rights to withold any access at all, and it would be up to your ex to lavish his money on a solicitor and court in order to gain access.
This might be inadvisable as courts will usually award access...and if you keep it civil you will both be looked at more favoourably if it does ever go legal, and you also might be better able to work out something that suits you all better.

Best of luck, I hope things improve.

Original poster

Wuxiapian · 15/01/2008 17:21

My son's 9.

My ex wouldn't even entertain the idea of taking time out of his busy schedule to spend time with DS. Time is money, afterall!
As I said before, he's never even been bothered to ring to see how DS is.

I really cannot understand the sudden interest and can't help but wonder if there's some kind of alterior motive.

I've tried talking to DS about the visit frequency and "never" having to go would be fine with him.

Ex's wife about to have a baby, too, that'll bring about a whole new set of stresses.

OP posts:

FlllightAttendant · 15/01/2008 17:37

That's interesting isn't it, Wux? I mean about the baby and the sudden interest.

It is hardly fair on you or Ds though.

If the comment below about the child's views being considered is correct, then I would have no qualms whatsoever in telling your ex that Ds does not want to go, and that you will not force him to against his will.

I don't think your ex would have a leg to stand on.

brandy7 · 15/01/2008 17:39

as your ex hasnt got a contact order hypothetically speaking you can withold contact BUT he will get contact if he goes to court and your sons views wont be listened to until the aged of 11/12,this is when the courts think a child knows their own mind and isnt being brainwashed by the resident parent (not that im implying that by the way)

I really wouldnt advise the court route, its very stressful and affects the kids hugely, i know ive been there and done it and hopefully wont be doing it again.

the norm for fathers being given contact now is every other weekend and one night in the week if they want it. I really would try and speak to him about making the visits closer together and knocking the overnights on the head.

a mother on another forum had her ex take her to court and last august he was given a staggered progressing order and now the father has the girl everyother weekend fri-sun after only 6months contact, the girl is 4 and hadnt met dad previously.The poor girl isnt coping with it all and the mother is the same as you, really upset when her child goes.

my ex wasnt paying maintenance for my son and wasnt seeing him and was given PR at court without me even being there,im afraid the courts are all for reintroducing these fathers that "decide" its time they want to be a parent and we as mothers cannot do a thing about it, other than support and encourage the child until they reach their teens when they cannot be dragged off crying and contact can cease if they want too

Original poster

Wuxiapian · 15/01/2008 18:36

I'm sorry to hear you've been through that, brandy. How old's your DS and how's he coping with the new arrangements?

It's a real shitter, isn't it?! Men dump on their kids then expect to swan in and out of their lives as and when they feel!

It'll go down like a lead balloon with "I'm his father, he's my son and I've got rights!", but if DS is still unhappy about going (in 3 weeks time), I'll have to try to talk to ex (again) about the visits.

Not sure if ex'll want to take things to the courts as 1, he'll have to pay for it, and 2, it'll come out that he owes me 5 year's child support!

OP posts:

brandy7 · 15/01/2008 21:16

my son is 3 wuxiapian and my ex has dragged us through court for 3 years exerting his "rights", child has medical problems, he didnt believe me even though i provided him with ALL medical paperwork. He visited my son twice a week in my home but went to court 3 times for unsupervised, knowing full well my son wouldnt go with him. In the end i gave in at a review hearing and thought, what the hell he can have his piece of "court" paper and offered him unsupervised. He tried to back out of it infront of the Judge! silly man, the Judge couldnt believe that he'd finally got what he wanted and was now trying to overturn it to be supervised at my house again!

my ex tried to take my son on one visit and it was awful and he actually couldnt do it,the poor child was hysterical. I told him there and then quite politely that he was a fool and he had good quality contact in my home and that our son would go with him in his own time eventually. I was quite hard on him and told him that he'd wasted 10,000 to get a worthless piece of paper exerting his rights as a father, he left and sat in his car crying.

we spoke that evening and a few times in the following week, he apologised for all the court appearances, apologised to my eldest son for blanking him for 3 years, apologised for everything going really.He actually slagged off solicitors and called them moneygrabbers and said that they spoke too much on his behalf and didnt let him say what he thought! quite common

I told him to revert back to coming here once a week (minimum) and every last saturday of the month for us all to go to the park when the weather better and for our boy to gain his trust with me around.

We started this immediately and still havent got the new order through as ive asked for a "2 year clause" on it that he doesnt take me to court for that period unless contact breaks down totally. everythings fine now, i dont feel pressured that my poor boy will be dragged off, dad is happy and the atmosphere has lifted.

If your ex wont want to go to court then you have the upper hand here. Tell him that your son is suffering emotionally and his welfare is at risk and because of this you want the overnights to cease and contact to be weekly for say 10-4 on a saturday OR sunday. If hes not happy with that , tell him you have no choice but to get a cafcass reporter involved to interview your son about his feelings towards his father and take the case to court. Hopefully he will agree

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