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Original poster

anyone know anything about contact orders????????

27 replies

sanchpanch · 17/09/2006 16:23

ex has seen dd -3 every week for the last year i have always let the contact fit in with his shifts, but now he tells me he wants to get a contact order,
I cant see why when we have had no problems with contact, would this grant him any other rights?

thankyou

OP posts:
MistressMiggins · 17/09/2006 19:58

hi sanchpanch
just had a quick google

Contact order
A contact order provides for the child to visit
or stay with a third party, usually the parent
with whom the child does not live, or for
that person and the child otherwise to
have contact with each other, for example, by
letter or telephone.

are you having treouble with your ex or do you think he wants to change arrangements & is preempting trouble from you

Freckle · 17/09/2006 20:02

If there is no problem regarding contact, to apply for a contact order is an abuse of the court process. It is only to be used where the parents cannot agree contact between them.

Judy1234 · 17/09/2006 20:02

Generally contact orders seem to make things worse so most people believe just agreeing contact works better. Ask him what he really means. Does he mean he wants more contact in which case you might be able to agree with him.

Sometimes it's to do with money because under I think CSA rules (not that I get any child support...) nights with the other parent I think mean less money paid for that child to the parent the child spends more time with. That link between contact and money causes so many problems people are looking at how it could be separated. It doesn't work in the interests of children.

Sunnysideup · 17/09/2006 20:18

I agree, the court would cetainly want to know why an order was being requested when basically all has been agreed and agreeable between you; I would bite my own arm off to avoid my child's contact being a matter for the courts if I were you and your ex - I think you def. need to find out where he is really coming from at the moment. It's no light matter to hand over arrangements re: your child to another person so I hope he realises this......

mosschops30 · 17/09/2006 20:20

Does he know how much it costs to go through the courts? He must have more money than sense. The court will not be happy to make an order if it can be agreed between you, and certainly based on what your saying they will not be amused. They will ask you to go to mediation if you cannot agree.

Original poster
sanchpanch · 18/09/2006 09:33

this is what i thought and the nursery would be wittness that he has picked dd up once a week then had her over night then taken her back to nursery the next day....

i have spoken to him and he said that he wants his time with her to be more secure ie that if it is in a contact order he then knows that i can't turn up at nursery when he is due to have her i say that she is coming with me instead, this has never happend and if it was going to happen it would have been more likely to happen at the begginging of the split when i was bitter and angry and very very sad!!!!!!

he also mentioned that i would have to list everyone living in my house on the contact order, so whether he is thinking i have a new man?

OP posts:
sorrell · 18/09/2006 09:37

Yes, I think that's exactly it. Someone has been gossiping to him, I reckon. The court will NOT be pleased if he wastes the court's time with a pointless order.

Holidaymum · 18/09/2006 09:40

The court would order mediation first anyway to try to arrange things out of court. Contact orders are definately a last resort. Definately need to sit down and discuss his motives with him.

Freckle · 18/09/2006 09:58

Erm, a contact order deals with time and frequency of contact by the non-resident parent (only in cases where this cannot be agreed amicably between the parents). It has absolutely nothing to do with who else may be living with the resident parent. I've never heard of anyone having to disclose such information in the case of a contact order. It may be relevant if he were pursuing a residency order, but he isn't.

Original poster
sanchpanch · 18/09/2006 10:32

yes he siad it will be expensive to get the order done,

few weeks ago he said he was applying for parental responsibilty and could i do a letter to say he was dd father, i refused, but i think i am going to have to do it, but just wanted to make it harder for him, but then he said if i didnt do it easily then he would have to use the maintenace money he gives me to pay for the court costs,

To be honest i may as well just let him have the parental responsibilty thing, as he would get it in the end anyway, i am just fed up with him getting what he wants all the time....

OP posts:
anorak · 18/09/2006 10:36

Parental responsibility doesn't amount to much anyway. It gives him the right to know where she is living, what school she goes to, etc but no more than you'd probably give him out of fairness anyway.

Definitely sounds like he's been taking legal advice off the man in the pub to me.

maggiesmama · 18/09/2006 10:37

i would take proper leagl advice if i were you. a first meeting with your solicitor shouldnt cost anything. from memory of what my solic said, the father cant apply for custody til he has parental responsibility. i guess i would wonder why your ex is suddenly wanting it?

anorak · 18/09/2006 10:38

And the court will give him parental responsibility unless you have a really extreme reason why not so you may as well write the letter and try to avoid a pointless and expensive trip to court.

Holidaymum · 18/09/2006 10:45

Parental responsilbilty is important for unmarried fathers for many reasons. If you die things can get very difficult without it, a guardian may be appoined without his consent. Also it gives him rights over medical treatment, ie if there is an accident whilst your child is in his care he has the right to approve treatment, importnat in case you cannot get there on time. I willingly gave it to my ex as to me it is vital. It will also let him see that you are being co-operative and it will also show a court that you are a reasonable caring person to if it gets that far. Agree with the legal advice though.

Original poster
sanchpanch · 18/09/2006 10:52

yes thanks i know you are right, he says he is worried that if i was to die!! then he wouldnt have any claims over dd without parental responsibilty, which might possibly be right,

thanks for your views i guess i was worried that he may benifit more than he does allready, i always send him copies of dd's nursery reports etc,

he has had advice from the fire brigade legal advisor, and i know a few of his friends have had problems when they split up with contact etc so i guess they have told him to get the contact order,

in a way i feel that i may as well let him go for the contact order, i would love them to tell him it isnt neccessary!!!! i think i was just worried that it may entitle (sp?) him to more than he already gets,

i always let his visits fit in with his shifts, and i have always been reasonable, so it feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth to be honest!!

OP posts:
Original poster
sanchpanch · 18/09/2006 10:54

Where would i begin with getting legal advice?

would i get any through my work? (NHS )

Do i just phone someone out of the yellow pages i wouldnt know hwere to start???

OP posts:
Holidaymum · 18/09/2006 11:11

Ask around!

We got a lovely solicitor from a friends recommendation and without her we wouldn't have coped with the past few years! First hour was free and gave us all we needed to know at first.

I have experience of my exp and my dh's exp both very very different. With my ex p I discussed contact with him which he has very very frequently, gave him parental responsibility and arranged a reasonable on both sides maintenance and we have avoided court.

With Dh's ex it has been a battle all the way including him getting pr, I can see things from both sides!

Just finished a court case and the family court system is to be avoided at all costs! You could make an out of court agreement and lodge a copy with his and your solicitors as a compromise?

If he won't discuss this with you suggest mediation, chances are it will be resolvable out of court.

Holidaymum · 18/09/2006 11:13

Incidentally we didn't want a contact order with dh's exp she did and the judge didn't give her one! We wanted flexible a flexible arrangement and got it so he will not necessarily win if he does push for one!

Original poster
sanchpanch · 18/09/2006 15:56

this would be ideal, i mean we cant have contact that is fixed in stone ie every other weekend because he works a rolling 4 day on 4 days off shift pattern , at the moment he gives me 2 months worth of dates that he is havving her, normally on the day he has been in bed untill 1pm(he collects her from nursery at 1pm) after a night shift then he gets 3 days off for himself before he has to go back to work.. (i tell him that she is his alarm clock)
so i cant honestly see where the problem is with him

OP posts:
sorrell · 18/09/2006 22:31

I'm sorry but I think it was quite unreasonable to refuse the letter saying he was his own daughter's father, tbh. I can see why this might have upset him. he may also worry that if you are refusing this, you may not always be as reasonable as you clearly are now re contact. If he has to go to court for PR the judge may well tick you off if you have made it difficult for him. he will definitely get it, so why not suggest you sign the stuff re parental responsibility and suggest that the contact thing will be unnecessary.

Original poster
sanchpanch · 19/09/2006 09:46

yes i see your point... it is a shame that if he could have been bothered to come and register dd's birth when she was 5 weeks old, he would have been on the birth certificate and we wouldn't have been having all of this now!!
I think i was in shock when he asked for this initially as he just left it in dd's bag after a nursery visit, so i just said no as a reaction and didnt think it through properley

OP posts:
Freckle · 19/09/2006 13:35

Perhaps you could approach him with an offer of granting parental responsibility (which he would get anyway if he applied to court), pointing out that it does not give him the right to countermand any decisions you make with regard to dd's care. Then suggest that applying for a contact order is not the best course of action because (a) it would cost money, (b) it is unlikely to succeed as it is an abuse of the court process if there is no dispute between you and (c) it wouldn't necessarily change anything.

With the offer of PR, he may drop the contact issue.

sorrell · 19/09/2006 13:39

What a stupid and annoying way to approach you! I can see his is irritating, but I would do the Ok, you have PR, and then drop this contact nonsense thing. See how that goes. Either way you won't lose out. You are v accommodating with contact, which he would soon realise if he tried going to court.

Original poster
sanchpanch · 19/09/2006 19:27

yeah thanks a lot for your advice, really appreciated..... i am going to sort out the pr stuff myself for him, then see what happens,

when they get pr, does one parent get more, ie-would i get the main responsibility? or would it be equal

OP posts:
sorrell · 19/09/2006 19:33

Yeah, you'd still be in charge and he couldn't interfere in teh 'day to day' decisions you take. He will have important rights - eg if you die he will have legal rights, and can consent to medical treatment if your dd is with him, and he can see school reports, but nothting that should really tread on your toes. There are some theoretical rights re schooling and her religion (not being able to change them without any consultation), but in practise you have hte final say. Tbh, you won't even notice it is there