Contact centre

[Pondwater20]

Hi, I am new to all this so please bare with me.

Me and my ex do not get on, short lived relationship, but we have a beautiful daughter from it.

She has requested I see our daughter at a contact centre. No abuse etc, just she doesn't like me and I have taken the matter to court - which seems to be her reasoning from what she has said.

After months of disagreeing I go to the contact centre, traffic in my city is appalling especially between my home and the centre, a 40 min drive away.

I arrived 13 mins late, where I was told that mother and daughter had already left, 5 mins prior to me getting there!

I left early to accommodate the traffic, I thought (hour and 5 mins) , there literally was nothing I could have done, I tried calling one number for the centre on the way, but there was no answer.

Now I haven't seen my daughter, I am gutted it's already been 6 months

Where do I stand with this? Was I "in the wrong"? Or could/should mother have waited abit longer?

The centre haven't made a comment obviously as being on the fence.

At my local contact centre if you're more than 10 minutes late contact is cancelled.

Then again my centre operates they paying contact parent arrives 15 minutes first and the accommodating parent arrives 15 minutes after to avoid any clashes. I thought this happened at every centre, if so you would of in fact been 30 minutes late and she would of left after you were meant to be there?

From my experience in court if you have no contact with the child and yourself and the mother don't get on than a contact centre may be the only way to go if nobody else can facilitate.

The court won't be impressed that you were late your ex has ordered to make the child available for contact which she did, she could of waited longer but if you were late than she will use that to say why she left. Can you re-schedule?

Oh it definitely doesn't work like that at the one we go to. It just starts and we have to be there. It isn't a centre for abusive parents etc, there is very little supervision, they don't offer supervised contact or reports - just a locked centre with CCTV outside and two volunteers and Non resident parents and kiddies in shared space.

Not much I will be able to say to the judge, I gave 65 mins for a 40 min journey, 30 mins according to google, which I thought was enough. Nothing I could have done apart from pull over and do my best Linford Christie impression for 20 miles.

I have screenshots of the calls I made to my partner after, that show I called her 20 mins after the session was due to begin, which by that time I had already parked up, been in the centre, and asked where our daughter and my ex was etc, and had a conversation with the manager and been turned away. So for me to have accomplished all that by 20 past, to me says I couldn't have been all that late.
Unfortunately though the centre do not do reports, and so cannot back this up.

I have requested we reschedule, she says she is busy next weekend and that she doesn't want to give me anymore access than fortnightly as it is too disruptive and inconsistent... which I understand could be true, but our daughter is 8 months old, and wouldn't notice one week from another, I don't think.

Thanks for the response. :)

The centre I went to wasn't just for abusive people, sounds like you're doing the un-supervised contact where there are just volunteers walking round the room and just glancing in case they're needed? (That's how our one works anyway there's more than you in the room at my one)

You can say exactly that, you left in plenty of time but there was unexpected traffic, Can you see if there was an accident (if there was) and then find the report online and print that off to?, print off the google map directions stating the time it takes to prove it takes 30 minutes, print screen the call logs and print them off to show how many times you rang her and explain that she left. However it will show that you were late. The court may well see it as 20 minutes late 2/3 of a half hour contact or 1/3 of a hour contact so a substantial amount of time for a 8 month old to be wait around.

Your 8 month old may well be in a routine so could do soft play on a tuesday, seeing a relative on a Wednesday etc and the court will want contact in the routine so the child gets use to it and to 'know' they see you on for example every other Friday 12-1pm.

If the court order is once every fortnight then your ex may use this reason for her benefit if she doesn't want contact 'you missed one now you've got to wait another 2 weeks' just ring the centre and rebook if for the week after and get them to liaise times with your ex and leave an hour earlier to make sure you get there, I would suggest if you haven't already give a quick text to your ex to apologise once again for missing contact and that you want to move forward and not let this hold future contact back and you look forward to seeing your DD in a fortnight's time (this is just what I would do personally, can always show that to the court to to show you're not mucking around)

Hope this all gets sorted for you!

Women get sick of tired of men being late all the time or not turning up for contact except once in a blue moon. You should have left a lot earlier even if you arrived an hour in advance.

It is theft of time to be late. Not acceptable at all.

Contact only ever works where people are utterly reliable.

Jane - Really? he left over an hour early for a maximum 45 minute drive leaving him 20 minutes extra.

What a brilliant sweeping statement of all men cause no woman is late ever

If it's a theft of time to be late, then this man has had a lot of time from his DD stolen.

Thong has said pretty much everything I was going to say. If you can, take screen shots of the amount of calls you made to the centre (as generally they show the time too) and calls you made to your ex.

Jane - where does it say that he has been late every session and only turns up once in a blue moon? He left in what he thought plenty of time, tried phoning to explain being late but couldn't get an answer. What else was he supposed to do? Sometimes being late for something is unavoidable.

Pond - next time for your contact I'd leave even earlier than you had left yourself time for because of what's happened previously.

pond

Screenshot what time you rang the contact centre as well, that way you can demonstrate you tried to get in contact with them

Hi, thanks for the comments and suggestions.

I thought 25 mins would do it, I was wrong and next time I am leaving 2 hours ahead of time and I am going to sit and wait - take a book or something.

This was the first session planned, I haven't seen DD in 6 months like I said, of course me being late wasn't acceptable. I was gutted and cried my way home if I am honest.

I do not have my exes number, she has mine, but didn't call to see where I was. It was my partner I called to ask her to email my ex to let her know what had happened. I called the centre, but there was no answer. Apparently there are two numbers, and they were only answering one, which I didn't know either.

Ex was ok with it and agreed to an extra session via email, but now is seemingly using it to her advantage, and has unagreed another session. I apologised a number of times, but this doesn't appear to have done me any favours at all, and I have gone about another 100 steps back in her eyes.

Yes thong, that's exactly like this centre.

Its been highly publicised that there will be these delays and road works for the next 4 years in our city, I just didn't realise how bad they were, as its the other side of the city, which I don't often venture too. I also relied on my sat nav, which took me right through them all I think.

Going to mark it as the worst day in history, and prey that the judge has suffered in these road works too.

It hasn't been court ordered contact either yet, the judge has been against making it, but we are having to go back for a 3rd directions hearing next month. Not getting anywhere with it at all. It is ex that has made all the shots, CAFCASS have cleared us.

Also about the routine -

right now I am, hopefully in future, going to see DD fortnightly for one hour....
to me this isn't enough. I have done extensive research that suggests contact at this age should be little an often.. fortnightly surely isn't often?
I have requested more contact from ex, but she says she only wants dd to have me in her life every other weekend. I would like to be in her life more than this, how do I go about that if my ex will never agree?

I know being late hasn't helped my case, but I do have ALOT of evidence to show that my ex is being very unreasonable and is blocking contact for little/ no reason.

Pressed send too early -

My point is Ex takes DD to 5 groups a week - isn't it looked upon that seeing her Father is more important than doing that many activities with her Mother?

I could and would take her to activities too..

How am I ever going to fit in? I know it isn't all me me me - but surely its important to have an as strong bond with father, as with mother?

Pond Print screen the roadwork details, the apologies etc. Especially the email where she agreed to contact and the email where she went back on it.

Online they often miss out the bits where contact where there has been little or none needs to start off slowly, you can't expect to have her 3 days a week 4 hours a time, The courts will like to start contact off slowly and steadily so once a fortnight for an hour then they will either progress the time scale i.e 2 hours or the'll move it to once a week for an hour then two then no longer in the centre etc. This is how the courts see it so they be assured your daughter doesn't get distressed.

The courts won't care if you want your DD every three days and your ex wants you to have your DD only once a fortnight they only care about what is in your DD's best interest.

The courts wouldn't like to interrupt your DD's routine, them groups are good for a child however you could take her and that's something I'd suggest you mention when at court it might not be immediately but in the future.

I wouldn't go into court all guns blazing demanding 3 times a week but i'd suggest asking for once a week or two if you can afford it for an hour or two or even ask for it to be at the play group or at a local park and suggest she could bring a friend for support if she feels she needs to.

Could you send your DD an email of a photo of you and a little email to say you're thinking of her once a week or send a toy. This will all show the court you are wanting to be in your DD's life and have actively tried indirect contact

I have emailed every single day for the last 3 months, and then at least twice a week previously to that, but mostly 4 times a week.
I have sent boxes of toys, dropped off outfits and toys etc, given gifts for ex for DD in court.
I have one photo of me and DD together, I sent that to her mother.
I request information and photos everyday and I only she "shes fine" and the blurriest of pics.

DD was hospitalised a few weeks back, I wasn't told until we were in court. But my ex had emailed me 10 times that day, and had called me to say DD was ill - but left that bit out. She wont add me to the birth certificate either, so I cant request at the hospital what was going on.
She then a few months back made out that our daughter was in hospital, but she wasn't! It was a gp appointment...

I have suggested literally about 10 times little and often contact building up.
I.e 20 mins walk near exes house twice a week for two weeks, 30 mins for two weeks twice a week, 2 times a week for an hour - you get the idea, building up to 6 hour sessions until she is one/happy to stay longer.
Only ex isn't interested, she says no to everything I ask and has never compromised, and followed out the compromise. It always changes back to what she originally says.

She says and does all this, and then offers for me to go swimming with them - which in my eyes is totally contradictory. Unless I do what she tells me, I get nowhere fast.

Ex has admitted that people believe that our baby is her current boyfriends, as they were together prior to our short relationship, and got back together days after we parted ways. I believe this is another reason why I am being shut away in a contact centre, incase anyone sees me with our daughter.

She wont let me pay maintenance either, because I requested a DNA test, which I wanted for court. Because she doesn't want me having the clarification.

Its like being in quicksand

Your 8 month old goes to 5 groups a week? She gets out more than I do! I don't know anyone with a baby who takes them to 5 groups a week but then I don't know anyone who is trying to give their baby such a busy schedule that they don't have time to see their father!

Once a fortnight is disgraceful. Little and often for a little baby.

Is there any reason you need to see your daughter in a contact centre? Violence? History of abuse? Drugs or alcohol? Anything at all? If not then are you going to ask the Court to order contact not in the centre? If there's no other reason for you to be there?

You need to ensure you get PR too, especially if she is shutting g you out on medical and hospital details.

Sounds to me like she's trying to have the perfect little family and you (the baby's father) don't factor in her plans. Don't let her do this to your daughter (or you).

CAFCASS have done their checks, they said we are clean etc.
No, no abuse, violence, drugs or alcohol. I very rarely drink as my partner hates to so I don't bother.
I have asked in court for no contact centres.
First time they said we had agreed to them - I didn't I just didn't have a choice it was all ex was plugging.
2nd time they said that they hadn't planned to put us infront of a judge, and we were to do a separated parents course.
3rd time I hadn't done the course as it landed when my partner was in hospital and she needed me to have her children as she has no family within 80 miles. so they said that that still had to be done. then ex said that our daughter was in hospital, and that she had to go, so no orders were made. Ex seems to think they will be sending us to mediation. But we have being trying to mediate since September via email and nothing ever is agreed, I am just bullied into what she wants.

Neither of us have solicitors and I feel we are just being pushed pillar to post due to this.

No mediation took place prior to the application, as she refused it, thinking application wouldn't be allowed to be filed without us going.

I too think 5 groups is too much, she cant be at home much, and that must be disruptive to her development. I doubt she is having enough sleep etc.

I am a stepfather to 3 under 8 - I know and she knows I am capable.

In my eyes its just to cut me out.

Pond Are you sure you're the DD's father (sorry in advanced) If she's going to deny this then ask the courts for a DNA test IF she refuses to put you on the Birth certificate if she comes back as yours the court will order you Parental Responsibility you can then go to the CSA yourself and apply to amend the birth certificate yourself.

It's all easy saying an 8 month old needs little and often but the chances are if you try to take her on your own she will cry and become distressed which can damage a relationship and any contact between you and your DD greatly! (I've been there) and your ex may see this as a reason to stop contact

Pond

5 groups will NOT hinder her development. Have you looked into these groups? Majority of them run for an hour. Your DD will be learning to share and play with other children, socialising skills, fine motor skills, words, walking, exploring etc this will NOT damage her at all. She will also not be loosing sleep at the expense of an hour. Infact I'd be grateful that your ex isn't just putting her in front of Mr Tumbles and letting her get on with things.

The court won't care about your step children they will want to know if you have children and how you parent your children (my ex tried that (albeit a lie) and he was shot down quickly!)

You sounded lovely up until the third last to last paragraph, where as now it sounds like you're grasping any and everything to use against your ex (that's how it comes across in that specific post) If you have serious concerns that your ex is not putting your DD first and she's sacrificing her sleep, development etc then don't sit there doing nothing you need to report these to the correct people, Heath visitors, social services etc.

thong - I assuming OP is saying that his ex is refusing contact outside of the contact centre because she claims he is incapable of looking after a child. OP was stating he isn't without experience of children as his step children live with him.

If I only got to see my child once a fortnight for an hour I too would be trying to find all I could to discredit my ex. She is not putting the child first by refusing to allow her more than 1 hour a fortnight with her father.

I also think 5 baby groups a week is too much, or at least absolutely necessary for an 8 month old. None of mine did any groups before the age of 1 and they developed just fine socially and academically.

Of course if your ex believes your baby's social life is more important than a relationship with her father you could offer to take your baby to the groups too, doesn't have to be mum does it.

polkadot - I know what the OP meant hence why all the previous advice about print screening etc, I was just saying what happened when my ex tried this in court because the children he had looked after weren't his own they were not interested (they also weren't interested in the fact his current partner worked in a nursery).

Pulling tricks like that won't make the judge impressed at all and what Pond doesn't need is to go in there all hot headed going "she's damaging my child's development and home routine by taking her to baby and toddler groups, she's not getting enough sleep because ex is taking DD to them. By the way i haven't reported this to anyone" The judge will look at him as playing petty games to score points like his ex is. Hence why I said if he is really worried he needs to report all of these worries professionally to the right people.

I can only try to understand how much this is hurting him deeply (I've never been in his situation, I've been on the other side) but he need to no matter what keep a calm rational head on his shoulders and not go in expecting the court to grant him 3 days a week and every other weekend. He needs to establish a relationship with his DD which is going to take time and the court will not want to rush this.

The likelihood is he may need a DNA test if she denies the child is his and refuses to put him on the BC because of this. If she accepts you're the father but still refuses the court will grant you PR no doubt which will mean you can go for medical records, HV etc.. He will then need to build a relationship with his daughter which may or may not take place in a contact centre but is likely to be a hour or two once a week or fortnight to build up a relationship and gradually build up slowly after it's been reviewed.

The last thing he needs is go in all guns blazing as I said. It won't look kindly on him. What he is doing is brilliant he just needs to keep that up, keep proof of postage etc to show he's doing everything and anything

polkadot - just because you didn't do it doesn't mean nobody does. I took my DC to 4 in a week due to the fact one was singing and games to help with speaking, one was story time, one was messy play and the other was soft play. I know a someone who took her DC to no groups my DC is just as well as hers nobody is wrong. The court isn't likely to tell her to stop taking her DD out to an hour long group when there are roughly 12 hours in the day her DF can see her and the extra 2 days a week she doesn't go to

I agree thong, each to their own but I think in this case OP's ex is stating she can't have any more contact due to the baby's groups needing to take place.

I think that too but the groups surely can't last all day so when it goes to court I'd ask for contact after or before if she refuses to let him take his DD and even suggest a mutual place to meet local to the group for the contact

I would suggest if there is a next time aim to arrive two hours early and take a book to read in the car until the appointed time.

Also contacting the mother I think you said every day when the child is 8 months old only seems very unusual.

I think you can apply to court for a paternity test. That might be a good next step too.

Jane - what possible reason do you have for him to sit outside a contact centre for 2 hours? Have you been to a contact centre because most of them will not let you sit in there waiting for that long.

The contact may seem unusual to you, but to a judge it will show he is actively trying to be there for his daughter. I mean when a family is together the father ask's about his daughter every day. He is doing the same there is NO reason on why she can't reply saying "DD is well, went to such an such group, ate all her meals and has been good" The fact she is giving little to no information will show the court how disruptive she is being.

Pond - have you applied to CSA yourself and asked to pay maintenance and for a DNA test even if she refuses you'll be sent a letter stating ex has refused to partake in a DNA test witch would also help you in court.