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Original poster

Loopholes? Elderly home owner wants to move into council warden accomadation.

30 replies

Treadmillmom · 08/08/2010 00:19

My 80 year old mother who is widowed and lives alone is losing her mobility to arthritis and really we're so worried about her we'd like her to move into a warden supervised accomadation.
She has 6 children and is adamant that after all her years of hard work she wants the proceeds from the sale of her home to go to her kids and grandchildren, not the state to pay for her ongoing care.
Friends have hinted that she can 'sign' the deeds of the house over to the kids and then move into council accomodation.
Does anyone know how this works or any alternative routes we could take?
If any of you ask, the sale of her house would never afford her a private retirement setting.

OP posts:
nickschick · 08/08/2010 00:26

My friends parents sold their home and quite easily got sheltered accomodation- I dont think they even had to squirrel away the proceeds as they were renting the council property and not in receipt of benefit.

I think perhaps she can gift shares of the house out over the next few years.

But I know of people who rent out their larger properties whilst they live in warden controlled council places.

Whats to stop her looking for such place and then selling her home -paying back monies shes lent over the years from her family Wink and then spending some of her money furnishing her new smaller place,leaving her with limited savings~?

StewieGriffinsMom · 08/08/2010 18:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MollieO · 08/08/2010 18:29

I would be disappointed if ds had to sell my house to pay for my care. How the present regime is organised does seem to work against those who spend all their money on buying their own home. How is that fair compared to others who rent privately or through the council? I also don't think this is a rich or poor debate either. I know plenty of people who choose to rent that have a greater income than me.

Unfortunately if you do give your house to your children and then require nursing care there is a time frame within which the State will expect to recover those costs from the beneficiaries.

StewieGriffinsMom · 08/08/2010 18:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bigstripeytiger · 08/08/2010 18:33

She will have to pay for her own accomodation, she wont be able to avoid that just because she would like to leave her current property as a legacy for her children.
Signing over the house in an attempt to avoid paying for herself will be noticed.
It might be worth her looking into how much warden controlled accomodation would actually cost her though. AFAIK it isnt usually prohibitively expensive.

expatinscotland · 08/08/2010 18:36

'Signing over the house in an attempt to avoid paying for herself will be noticed.'

IIRC, you need to have done this at least 7 years before you die or become incapacitated for that ploy to work.

'My friends parents sold their home and quite easily got sheltered accomodation- I dont think they even had to squirrel away the proceeds as they were renting the council property and not in receipt of benefit.'

Yes, they were paying for their sheltered accommodation, not excepcting the taxpayer to do it.

ruddynorah · 08/08/2010 18:40

Could she rent out her current home and use the proceeds to pay for her sheltered home?

MollieO · 08/08/2010 18:42

SGM I agree that my parents' money is their own which is why I'd rather they had it than the State! Surely most people who have worked full time since they were 14 have paid enough in tax to claim some benefit in the later stages of their lives? Hmm Instead they have funded many others and will continue to do so if their money is used to fund their own care.

expatinscotland · 08/08/2010 18:46

'Surely most people who have worked full time since they were 14 have paid enough in tax to claim some benefit in the later stages of their lives?'

They do: state pension. Sometimes most of us in our 30s and 40s will probably never have no matter how hard we work.

Yes, well, I've worked all my life, too, and why should I have to pay for others who have an asset I'll never be able to have thanks in part to so many living so damn long for them further enrich the select few?

My dad worked his whole life, too. Big deal. That's life for 99.9% of us! He doesn't expect the state to pay for him. His money will provide him with more choice in the care he may need to receive. Or my mother.

That's what it's for, not to pass on after he's dead.

ILovePlayingDarts · 08/08/2010 19:39

I do not expect anything from my parents. It is up to me, as an adult, to pay my own way through life. I would rather any money they have is used to make their lives comfortable.

If you can afford to pay for care you should do so. It's not the taxpayer's responsibility to fund care so people can leave a bit of money to others. I do not appreciate my money (which is what my tax payments are) being used to effectively pay for someone else's inheritance.

This country is in a bit of a state at the moment. If you can pay your way, you should do.

nickschick · 08/08/2010 22:07

I think mumsnet is getting quite twisty lately I dont think the OP meant what we are all insinuating......

StewieGriffinsMom · 08/08/2010 22:18

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland · 08/08/2010 23:05

What SGM said. Not a slur at all.

I don't expect money I did nothing to earn.

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/08/2010 23:22

Well, if your mother absolutely insists on leaving her house to her six children as an inheritance, there is an 'alternative route' - her six children can take care of her, either in her own home or in one of theirs.

State care is meant to be a safety net for those who have nothing and no-one. Your mum has assets and a large family. As has already been pointed out, the law on signing over assets is pretty tight, presumably because otherwise lots of people would try to do what your mother is proposing.

ivykaty44 · 08/08/2010 23:27

Not all sheltered accomidation is rental - some you buy, could she not look at buying a flat in sheltered accomidation and then with the remander money she can spend as she likes or wishes to a certian extent - then ina few years take things from there if she needs more help and assistance and sells up and moves in soemwhere else

Best to live for now and be comfortable now

Original poster
Treadmillmom · 09/08/2010 22:45

Ladies, ladies, ladies, thank you for your responses, but please don't fight.
My dear mother loves us all. She arrived in this country in the late 1950s with nothing more than a suitcase of clothes and her dream was to leave a financial legacy for her children.
Bless her cotton socks, she still thinks in old values of money, her house value is at the lower end of the scale and split 6 ways is hardly worth the effort after legal costs.
All we want is for her to be comfortable and happy, we don't care about the money one jot. She is passionately adamant that after all her tax and NI contributions the state should look after her so she can look after her kids.
If I tell her she has to use her house for her ongoing care, she won't budge, she'll die in there from a fall.
Five years ago my less than wealthy older brother built a granny (studio) house on the tiny plot of his 3 bed terrace and she moaned and complained and refused to budge. She doesn't want to live with any of us, no-one lives up to her high standards eg dirty dishes left in the sink, cookers with grease on, noisey children, c'mon girls you know what women of that age are like.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 09/08/2010 23:25

"Ladies, ladies, ladies, thank you for your responses, but please don't fight."

Sorry, you've completely lost me there.

Appletrees · 09/08/2010 23:33

Why dont you all uy itoffher for six thousand pounds

U

Appletrees · 09/08/2010 23:36

That would be legal surely. You should get better advice than this. This is all opinion.

bigstripeytiger · 10/08/2010 08:03

Deprivation of assets

The above link applies to care homes.

Appletrees · 10/08/2010 08:17

That is a great incentive for either frittering away onecs earnings or engaging in creative adset management nice and early. Excuse typos, gettinused to phone. Anyway thanks for the link. My plan will be to die penniless having looked after my children ahead of time. I should get on to it.

Imisssleeping · 10/08/2010 08:27

She can get alot of care in her own home if she needs it.
My mother is adamant she will not go into a home. She has people who go in three times a day and get her meals ready and someone who goes in three times a week to give her a shower.
She has a stairlift and a modified shower.

AnnoyingOrange · 10/08/2010 08:44

If don't mind saying, IMS, how is your mothers help arranged? Did she have to organise it herself and pay for it or is there any state help?

Just wondering, as we might be needing that kind of help for our elderly parents

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/08/2010 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Imisssleeping · 10/08/2010 13:44

Hi, no I don't mind.

I'm pretty sure it's through age concern.(If not then social services)
I don't think she pays for it, she did have a cleaning and shopping service through them that she did pay for.
she didn't pay for the stairlift or the bathroom ,they re-did the bathroom giving her a sit down shower and re-doing the floor.
She also has one of those alarms round her neck which she does pay for.
hope that's of some help