ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread #6

[Gardenlady543]

@Janefx40 @birdbybird @seven201 @Gardenlady543 @patientpatient @MyEasterEggs @thislittlebird @Yuliaaa @Violette22 @2021ivfagain @OrangeBengal @Enfys23 @Loz2467 @DEIVF @Hopeful199 @ER12 @greendress789 @Douchas12111 @Lori2022 @AdviceForJane @Anonbaby @Molls87 @ChickenT2b @GoldenElephant @IVF22 @StillTrying10000 @warrior101 @whatcangowrong @Yaynayokay

Oh yes it really has happened we are onto thread #6.

All are welcome to join us, we started out as people interested in ERA EMMA ALICE but we seem to have had every test available between us.

So if you want to know about the microbiome, reproductive immunology or you just feel your case is complicated and what like minded people to talk to about it you've come to the right place

Thanks for everyone’s kind thoughts and wishes. As has happened each time with hormone crash and lack of sleep/stress I had a horrendous migraine soon after stopping meds. Just about resurfacing now.

I'm sorry to hear your result too @Loz2467 .

I’m glad your HSG went well and with someone you had faith in @Gardenlady543 .

I started bleeding today so just waiting day 1 call back from the clinic as with it being natural cycle think they’ll let me just head into next FET with our last frozen embryo.

@Enfys23 ah, the migraine club is a shit place. I get them once or twice per month with ovulation and AF but they have been lasting longer since my miscarriage and ivf cycle (not sure which triggered this fun development). So now I get 1 day of headache, 1 day of migraine, and 1 day of comedown (so that’s fun). Had to cancel my Pilates class, couldn’t face leaving the house.

I had a pregnancy announcement today. Just…sigh. I’m so tired or being the one that can’t get pregnant.

@VenusStarr yeah, that does sound like psoriasis. On the rhesus thing, I did find an article saying people with our blood type are more prone to health issues but I haven’t read the full thing. It piqued my interest, I’ve always been plagued by niggling health issues.

I know we have an explanation but I don’t understand why ivf works for all these other people with male factor but not for us. An explanation for all this seems hard to come by.

Waiting for DH’s SA results. They lost the last one he did so I’m expecting them to say these aren’t back or are lost too.

Question for those who’ve taken DHEA how long did you take it for before stims and did your clinic prescribe or did you buy it online (and if so where/how?)? Thanks!
I know I shouldn’t give up hope already for our last embryo but I think mentally I will find it easier (for instance if it doesn’t warm up from storage) to have contingency of some ideas for 3rd stim. Sounds like DHEA may be better than Tostran in some for priming (I had Tostran before my 2nd cycle) and might need to explore alternative stim meds/doses as was on 450iu Ovaleap (FSH) before but now realise too high a dose for someone with diminished ovarian reserve issues.

@thislittlebird it is a really shit club isn’t it!! I’m sorry you go through the same. I hope they haven’t lost your DH’s SA this time. That’s so annoying.

Sending hugs. It’s so hard to deal with pregnancy announcements when going through all this x

Not been on for ages. Sorry @Loz2467 and @Enfys23 for the BFN. So very shitty.

I haven't read everything (find it a bit overwhelming sometimes as I feel I don't understand it all and feel guilty I should put more effort to understand all the terminology etc.). Sorry to everyone who has had crap news.

Congrats to those who have recent good tests etc!

Hoping the pregnant ladies are doing well? @Janefx40 you must be far along now?

Not much news from me. BFN last cycle, doing another letrazole cycle now, got a scan on Monday, they should have a scan 5 days after ovulation to see if the random fluid has left my uterus. Just fed up that this is still my life.

I'm another on hydroxy (since early august). I think my hair loss has slowed down a bit now. Does hydroxy leave you more prone to colds and bugs? I am picking up every cold and bug going and it's driving me mad! I work in a school so can't escape the germs. I'm also rhesus + and have had psoriasis in the past.

Hi @seven201 good to hear from you. I'm sorry last cycle didn't work. It's relentless when you're on that hamster wheel. Glad they're checking the fluid issue though. I'm sorry you're fed up. It's just shit ❤️
I'm never ill, honestly I think my immune system zaps everything 🙄 I've not had covid and barely had any colds or coughs, particularly in the last few years. Sorry you're picking up all sorts.

I think the hydroxy is already clearing up my rash 🧐 we started the Doxycycline today.

How are you @Gardenlady543 I'm glad everything was OK with the hsg.

@thislittlebird that's rubbish about your dh's sperm sample, really hope you get results this time.

I've not taken DHEA @Enfys23 I think @Janefx40 did at one point? I think you have to be monitored for your testosterone levels. I'm sorry you're not feeling hopeful ❤️

Hope everyone is doing ok. X

@Enfys23 i took DHEA before my last cycle in 2022 and got good numbers of eggs and blasts for my age (43). Got one euploid out of three blasts. I was only on DHEA 25mg for a few weeks so I don’t think it had much effect. I’m currently on it for around 8 weeks and will continue for the next month until next cycle. Again only 25mg rather than the typical 75mg. 12 weeks for 2-3 months is usually recommended. But worth getting your DHEA-s and testosterone level checked first, and monitored. I tested my DHEA-s via Medichecks before taking it and my level on normal range (5 something). I’m aiming to have it at higher range of normal, typical of younger. I got mine from Biovea. It’s recommended that ‘micronised’ is used. I’m not sure if Biovea is micronised but limited options in UK. It wasn’t recommended by my consultant, I suggested it and he didn’t object. He doesn’t really suggest much beyond the standard ivf drugs although he did offer testosterone priming for upcoming cycle but no need as I’m taking DHEA, which has similar effect. I’ve read lots of studies that support DHEA, particularly for low ovarian reserve. My reserve isn’t low for my age, but lower than those younger. Last cycle a year ago, I got 9 mature eggs, I’d be happy with that this time too.

‘12 weeks for 2-3 months’ meant say ‘75mg for 2-3 months’!! Oh dear!

@Enfys23 yes I also took DHEA. My clinic tested me for DHEA and free testosterone and my levels were low. I can't remember the dose but it was either 59 or 75mg. I was prescribed it but it takes a long time to arrive even so. I ended up also buying some from the internet in the hope it would come quicker (it didn't!). The prescribed stuff was micronised the other stuff not but I don't think that element made a huge difference.

I was tested again after 9 weeks and my levels were over the top of the range so I stopped.

I got a good number of eggs. That round didn't work and the next round that I used it for didn't give me any euploids either!

For some reason I still believe in it! It's also amazing for lowering FSH.

So overall I feel quite positive about DHEA but you do need to make sure you test before and after because it can mess things up if you don't need it. I've been on a couple of threads on here with women who had issues with it so I would say it's great but only take it if you need it x

I’ve just ordered a re-test of DHEA-s and free testosterone level as it’s been 8 weeks since last test.

@seven201 lovely to hear from you. Sorry things haven't worked out for you yet. Xxx

Thanks for all the DHEA advice @VenusStarr @CailinInUK @Janefx40 . I am trying to get positivity and hope back for this cycle. But it’s still good to be prepared I think. I’m always better with a plan!

@seven201 good luck with this cycle.

@Enfys23
I’m taking dhea at present and always take it before stims for superovulated FET cycle. I usually take 50mg (so two tablets twice a day) from
cd14 until cd3 of stimming cycle. Then I stop on cd3.

This time to help with lowering fsh further I have taken 75mg every day from cd14 and will be continuing again until I start stims on cd3.

I have no problems with dhea. I did before when I tried to take them all in one go as bottle told me to but I space them out and take 20 minutes before food.

You might want to ask about oestrogen priming as it worked well for me in terms of lining and follicle growth.

I also take zumenon from cd21 until first day of period. I also take omega 3 three times a day, wheatgrass 30g once a day and ubiquinol 200mg three times a day. I stop wheatgrass just before stims and omega 3 just before stims but continue with ubiquinol until near transfer. All of this helps lining and lowering fsh.

By the way, I take vitamin e 200iux2 until transfer as this also helps thicken lining.

@CailinInUK
Thanks for the link to the other testing kit for infections. As I just have issues with gardnerella, I’m getting an ultra fast swab test with Home Diagnostics. It only takes 2-3 days for result to come through. I will consider the other one you mentioned in the future if I have more time.

@thislittlebird
I’m also rhesus negative but don’t really have issues with this. When I was pregnant with my son, I needed an extra blood test to check my baby’s blood and it confirmed he was also rhesus negative. Also, got husband’s blood test done and he was also rhesus negative so that worked out well.

@Gardenlady543

I have had lots of issues after stopping antibiotics and really worried that antibiotics did not work so will be doing another swab tomorrow. I did read somewhere that if you take boric acid tablets at the same time as taking metronidazole it actually helps to attack the gardnerella faster and more thoroughly. They also recommend taking boric acid with probiotic (lactobacillus crispatus, rhamnosus and reuteri) at the same time.

I remember taking boric acid before and had success with it. However, is boric acid safe at the very beginning of the transfer cycle so from cd1-cd7, for example? Sorry I’m just feeling so apprehensive as this is my last chance.

@2021ivfagain boric acid is what people in USA use, in the Uk We have loads of acid products such as balance activ which is what I use , I haven't heard of people in the UK using boric acid and yep you're right lowering the pH is part of the triad of ways to resolve BV dx.doi.org/10.1136/sti.2002.002733

Hi @seven201 I was going to ask how you're getting on, what's your plan moving forward have you set a number of letrozole cycles before you go back to IVF?

Thanks for all the kind words after the HSG, I randomly got my Lh surge on CD12 yesterday which is really early for me. I put some sperm in last night and will do again this morning and then will start antibiotics for a few days ready for the FET, they gave me some azithromycin on the HSG day but the last time I had a HSG I had 0% lactobacillus the month after so clearly the antibiotics did nothing.

@Gardenlady543

When is your FET transfer? Will you take metronidazole again?

It does tend to be in America but I did take thrush duo boric acid capsules from Boots in October when I took metronidazole then and it seemed better. I did canesbalance this time but I’m on my forth box so ph was really high this time and almost worse after antibiotics!

The article said boric acid gets rid of bad bacteria just like antibiotics so it’s almost a two pronged approach. Are Boots thrush duo boric acid capsules safe at very start of cycle? www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/womenshealth/boots-dual-action-thrush-and-bv-pessaries-7s-10303159
I would still take canesbalance as well but a week after.

Thanks for the detailed info @2021ivfagain . I really hope things go well with your next cycle. I would also be nervous about using boric acid during a transfer cycle itself. Are you already into the cycle or have you got some time before day 1?

I do think IVF and all these meds throw our hormones and cycles off quite a bit @Gardenlady543 glad you have a plan.

I’ve just had call from clinic that consultant wants a review before next FET. So that’s two weeks from today. I could get something sooner but rather wait for my consultant who is most experienced one there. So nothing will happen this cycle as already had day 1 last Friday, and DH away around my ovulation so not TTC naturally either. Will maybe be good for me to have month “off”. I don’t know. I do want things to be done right though and if consultant wants review then that’s hopefully positive they’re also wanting everything done right and may suggest something else investigation wise before next FET. We’ve had 3 implantation failures now. Though the first transfer was done badly by a trainee so maybe that doesn’t count.

I'm currently hooked up to intralipids at CRP. It's cd11 and my lining is 6.72mm, which I'm pleased with. There is still fluid in my uterus, but not as much as last month. I had prof S and Dr Edge today and they seem to disagree with mr lower and do see this fluid as an issue and they don't think it will disappear with progesterone in time for implantation to happen. I've got a scan with prof s on Monday to see if the fluid has gone but.... I've just realised I start the progesterone on the same day and it's meant to be 5 days after starting the progesterone (according to mr lower). I think I'll try and move it to later in the week, but that won't go down well with prof S I think! I'm doing the trigger on Friday eve. Anyone know how long it takes for your body to start producing progesterone after ovulation?

@Gardenlady543 so is your FET next cycle then? That's good! So in time for the LIT stuff to still be there?

@Enfys23

Yes I agree. It does mess up hormones. I’m on cd26 but could drag out my cycle until cd32 if necessary with extra norethisterone. So would then be going into my superovulated FET cycle where on cd3 I would start stimming on meriofert 225iu every other day.

Sorry to hear you've got conflicting info @seven201 I'm pretty sure progesterone rises straight away with ovulation. It sounds like they're being thorough. They must think you have a chance this cycle because they've given you intralipids.
Why do they think you've got this fluid each month?

I'm only cycle day 18 and feel like af is on her way 🙄 I did feel like I ovulated early this cycle on day 9. It'll throw off all my plans though if I'm having super short cycles! It might also mean we'll start ttc again in March, which is next month and that messes with my head a bit 😬

Hope everyone is OK ❤️

I've just looked and I only have 2 cycles left before we ttc again 🥴😮

@seven201 my understanding is progesterone starts rising straight from ovulation and in natural ovulation cycle starts to rise slightly before because of the LH pulses.

@2021ivfagain I think I have 5 days of metronidazole that I can take and will take soon. I expect FET cycle will start in 2 weeks. I think any acid based is fine at the start of a cycle if the bleeding has stopped, not during the bleed though.

@seven201 yeah, I haven't arranged an appointment about the HSG. I'm assuming they would contact me if it's abnormal. I guess there can't be anything really noticeable wrong or it would have been seen on the images she could see on the day.

Sorry guys I know I'm always moaning about something, someone is giving me a really hard time at work, I've been there a few years and it's been part of my life that has been fairly stress free. But not anymore. I feel like I can't leave because of infertility treatment but I'm in tears most days. What would you guys do, I know what I would do if it was 5 years ago before any of this started.

ive had a wild ride past few weeks and likely destroyed the normal microbiome.

first I used active balance and probiotics which for some reason gave me thrush. Then once that was over a cervical polyp sprung up and I’ve had 10 days of spotting. Luckily I had it removed during nk cell biopsy today.

is it a given that I will have bv again with the ph being off for so long or is there a small chance the microbiome might be ok once the spotting stops?

i really think we all endure so much on these journeys it’s just a lot isn’t it 🤦‍♀️

@Enfys23 thank you, that's good to know. @VenusStarr they all agree it's cervical
Mucus and it's gathering at my c-section niche. Prof S said it's acting like a valve and releasing it into my uterus, which could stop implantation. I tried to move my Monday appt to weds but there aren't any appts left at all all week, so currently stuck with the Monday. Just think it's too soon and there'll definitely still be fluid then and they'll use that to talk me into another hysteroscopy.

Venus, so you're ttc again starting in March. Is it natural or ivf? I'm glad the break has done you good! Do you feel mentally and physically ready for it?

@Gardenlady543 I'm sure many of us can relate to the being stuck in a job because of infertility treatment. I don't get on with my line manager at all so just try and keep away from her as much as possible. Are they above you? Can you speak to HR or your manager do you think? Sometimes when someone at work pisses me off I try and remind myself it's just a job and I have bigger things to worry about - sometimes that helps me not let it get to me as much.

@Lori2022 if you're spotting then that is alkali and you can't tell what the vaginal pH is, when you stop bleeding you can try vaginal probiotics and balance activ. Hopefully it will correct itself. The rest of the world seems to manage and some people have periods that go on for a very long time and the body self corrects.

Thanks @seven201 my psychologist said avoid this person as much as possible but I can't and they aren't accountable to anybody, so I don't know what to do. I tried talking to someone today who didn't seem to care, so I don't think it's resolvable. I guess it's hard when work used to be my source of stability and something I was really good at and now I just get upset over it and since there is nothing else in my life there is nothing to distract me.