ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread #6

[Gardenlady543]

@Janefx40 @birdbybird @seven201 @Gardenlady543 @patientpatient @MyEasterEggs @thislittlebird @Yuliaaa @Violette22 @2021ivfagain @OrangeBengal @Enfys23 @Loz2467 @DEIVF @Hopeful199 @ER12 @greendress789 @Douchas12111 @Lori2022 @AdviceForJane @Anonbaby @Molls87 @ChickenT2b @GoldenElephant @IVF22 @StillTrying10000 @warrior101 @whatcangowrong @Yaynayokay

Oh yes it really has happened we are onto thread #6.

All are welcome to join us, we started out as people interested in ERA EMMA ALICE but we seem to have had every test available between us.

So if you want to know about the microbiome, reproductive immunology or you just feel your case is complicated and what like minded people to talk to about it you've come to the right place

@Gardenlady543 your job situation sounds very difficult. I hope you find a way to improve it.

@Gardenlady543 sorry you have to work with this person often. Can you try and be as swift and efficient when you do have to speak to each other? In and out as quickly as possible. Rise above her twatishness. Some people just love being arseholes and don't deserve our thoughts.

CRP are going to see if the can move things around so I can have the scan on Wednesday instead of Monday.

I'm sorry you couldn't change the appointment @seven201 Hopefully Monday's appointment will show the fluid has reduced. Do you get a lot of ewcm or are you not seeing much because it's being diverted to your uterus?
We're doing superovulation with gonal f and letrozole. So it'll be late March / early April. I'm not sure if I'm ready, have really liked the break to be honest. I need to probably look at getting the meds sorted. We're going away mid-March and so want to get prepared.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time @Gardenlady543 and that no-one is taking it seriously or supporting you. Do you have abullying and harassment policy? Or you could go through occupational health and see if they can wrote a report to your manager?
I'm sorry its knocking your confidence ❤️

@VenusStarr I said to mr Lower I don't get much mucus and he said it's because it's all in my uterus. Makes sense. We cross posted -
CRP are kindly trying to rearrange things.

That's so nice you're going away before the cycle. I think being relaxed definitely helps. I don't think anyone feels truly ready, just willing to turn up and endure it all is enough!

@Gardenlady543
Thank you so much for your advice. Can I use anything during period not even vagibiom or canesflor probiotics? I just worry about ph getting above 5. I know last cycle I used canesbalance during my period but wondered if it was a bad idea. My ph gets high after metronidazole and norethisterone.

Good luck with your next FET. Mine should be early -mid March.

I’m sorry you’re not having a good time at work. I know what it’s like. When I was working full-time, I had managers in the past who were horrible. I was working at a college for 5 years and was being bullied and was getting over grief and trying to move house. In the end I left. But I only left when other problems calmed down a bit. I understand that when you’re dealing with big issues, it’s difficult to spread your focus.

It got to the point where I dreaded Saturdays and only liked Friday evenings. If you can stay a bit longer it might be a good idea, but you could keep an eye on other job opportunities without taking up too much time.

@2021ivfagain menstrual blood is alkali so just let the body do it's thing and don't put anything in the vagina at this time, you can still take oral probiotics.

Thanks @2021ivfagain that sounds horrible :( it's so hard feeling trapped

@VenusStarr this person isn't accountable to anybody, I tried telling someone who is the only person that might be able to help and they just said they don't recognise the behavior but that's because it's only directed at women from what I've seen and heard.

@seven201 I think I'll have to try but I have constant meetings with them and they start long arguments for no reason and refuse to back down.

Just got my EMMA and ALICE back. ALICE all normal but abnormal EMMA. Have to take antibiotics and probiotics then re-biopsy. 😔

Does anyone know what the lab considers a “normal” level of lactobacillus? I saw a study saying it should be 90% or above but that seems so so high. Can’t imagine I’ll achieve that in a cycle. Feel really defeated.

@2021ivfagain wow, you're all negative, very lucky!

@CailinInUK can I ask what sort of protocol and egg/embryo numbers you had when you got a good number of euploids? I'm 40 this year and worried we won't get any.

@seven201 @Gardenlady543 I'm also stuck in my job because of all this. If it wasn't for this I would have left long ago, but luckily it's just the fact the job is boring and not any personality clash or bad manager issues, so i stay put in case I end up in a worse situ but with more pay.

I'm sorry if there's any updates I've missed. I have to skim because I'm not on often at the moment. I was hoping to pick your brains.

We have a weird situation. DH had a wisdom tooth out and the resulting fever and bad sperm seem to have ruined our November cycle. We have another paid for, it's now been over 3 months since then and we got and SA back and DH's sperm numbers are very good but as usual motility and vitality are low, morphology is normal. We need to do another DNA fragmentation test and we've asked our clinic if they can do a private test and assess the movement of the sperm because they were only "occasionally twitching" in November. We want to know if any are moving forward.

DH now needs another wisdom tooth out, and maybe a varicocele removed. He's booked in for the tooth at the end of Feb but if he goes ahead with it that potentially takes us until September when we can try again and I'm 40 in May. I'll assume the varicocele embolisation would be even later than Feb.

I need to get some NK cells tests done, and I need to probably take myself to urgent care to assess an ongoing stomach pain (maybe gallstones, unclear). I have a GP appointment for this that's two weeks away but it's only a phone call and I don't really want to wait to find out what's going on what with ivf timing to consider, it's already been off and on for weeks as it is.

But if my tests at urgent care are ok and his sperm DNA and movement are ok, do you think it makes sense to do the paid for round before the tooth and possible varicocele embolisation? Both of those will set us back months and months, and we haven't even had the varicocele scan letter through yet. We managed to make 4 good quality embryos on our first round and only one didn't survive the thaw, our second round went to shit because of the fever afaik.

I don't want to rush into things, although we would make sure to test his sperm before the cycle this time, and I might have meds for immune issues, who nows. I don't know how I can just sit here doing nothing until September knowing I'm wasting crucial months, it's very confusing.

@seven201 how did they work out the mucus was staying in the uterus? I've not heard of this before.

@grcrobbo my Juno report had >75% as being ‘green’, i.e. good, and 50-75% bring amber. Hope that helps.

@thislittlebird hi, I’ll dig out my numbers and get back to you. I never got a good number of euploids really, just consistently one or two per cycle when I did long protocol and that was mainly at age 38/39 and age 42/43. Have you done PGT-a before?

@thislittlebird just a thought but at the time when your partners sperm looks at its best for him can you freeze some vials, I know it's not perfect but it's really hard to coordinate you going in stims and having eggs collected (which isn't something you can time without several weeks of preparation and planning) with all this stuff he has going on. At the very least if everything sets you back months you have a back up option?

@grcrobbo the majority of your bad bacteria is gardnerella which is pretty easy to eradicate, I would suggest you get some vaginal clindamycin and oral metronidazole and take both for 10-12 days, you can get both from online pharmacies, this will give you a better chance of resolving the infection that what you would have been recommended, then follow with balance activ and vaginal probiotics and I think you have a very good chance of normalising. it. Igenomix would say 90% lactobacillus is normal but studies have shown 80-90% is pretty good in relation to outcomes and bifidobacterium seems to be just as good as lactobacillus in one study I found, it is also acid producing and it's in some of my vaginal probiotics.

@CailinInUK thank you! We were going to do PGTA in November for our first private round but we didn't make any blasts. We had two embryos that they transferred which hadn't made it to blast and that was it. Obviously they didn't work and I didn't expect them to. So the plan is to do it next time, just worried it'll happen again, hence my long post of uncertainty!

To add to my long post, DH's latest SA is in. I'm so hugely frustrated by all this. He has a good count but so few are alive or motile. 500k by the looks of it, and urology at Guys had the cheek to say he has enough sperm for us to conceive naturally🙄. Even within the 500k we don't know if they're moving much and the last batch in November were only occasionally twitching. Does anyone else here have MFI? I'm so fed up of them dismissing it because he has a regular count. No one cares there's so few left when all factors are considered.

@Gardenlady543 yes, we're going to freeze a sample or two. The issue right now is figuring out when that point of improvement is before he has any more ops or illnesses. I suppose if our clinic look at another sample and tell us if any are moving normally we could freeze some right away.

@thislittlebird the clinic should be doing a sperm analysis report with each sample so depending on cost limits you could plan several trips and have an idea of how good each sample is.

@Gardenlady543 unfortunately the nhs one doesn’t go into detail about what they’re up to, it’s very frustrating. I think we might do a couple for him in the next month maybe. I’ve emailed my doctor at the ivf today to ask about them telling us if they’re moving well or not if we do an SA. I just wish we new why they didn’t move or why they aren’t alive. It’s all so frustrating and now I need to see what’s going on with my stomach. I think I’ll possibly go to a&e on Friday so that it’s out the way and I hopefully have answers.

Not a&e, urgent care. It’s in the same place at my hospital so I call it that, not that I’m going to that one after my last experience there 🙃

Thank you! It does x

Thank you so much for this info 💗

@thislittlebird I am sure they have to make some form of assessment, you aren't asking for much, even if they can just say whether it's excellent, good or poor subjectively that will be of some use.

@thislittlebird
I’m sorry you’re going through this. We have mfi issues. My husband has low morphology which fluctuates when he has a virus such as covid. We had to ensure we both had a special diet and a bucketful of supplements all from It Starts with the Egg. DHA from Nordic was a game changer as well as wheatgrass and increased vitamin d to 2000iu a day. He ate Brazil nuts and walnuts daily, grapefruits, reduced caffeine to one a day, stopped alcohol and reduced sugar intake. We ate Scottish salmon 2-3 times a week and increased veg etc. Also lycopene was also a supplement he took from Holland and Barrett.

It can take 3-4 months to change quality of sperm but really recommend all supplements from Rebecca Fett’s book as well as wheatgrass and lycopene.

Also, when I was first 40, I had a good IVF cycle. Things got bad in terms of egg quality when I got closer to 41 but only when fsh became higher. What I’m saying is 40 is not that bad but I understand you want to make progress and not waste time.

@CailinInUK
Can I just ask about your microbiome if that’s ok? When I had my biopsy in November last year, it showed poor lactobacillus but a very faint dysbiotic infection which they did not warrant needing antibiotic treatment. Have you had any issues since your last swab/analysis if you don’t mind me asking? I’ve done one swab with Home Diagnostics which gives result in few days but I prefer Invivo which is more detailed. So I’m going to do swab with Invivo as well and drag out cycle to buy myself more time just in case. I’m worried about keep taking antibiotics.

@Gardenlady543
You mentioned to @grcrobbo about taking clindamycin. It’s just that I probably still have a poor amount of lactobacillus. Do you think I should also take same antibiotic or keep with what I use if I have to take more? Also is it worth doing a ph test and if it’s less than 4.5 not bothering to take more antibiotics? I’ve taken 21 canesbalance gel pessaries and finally feel better but that seems a lot! Is it due to my age (41), high fsh, stress and lowering oestrogen levels? I’m really sorry for all these questions. I’m just starting to panic and was in tears today as this is my last chance.

Hope you had a better day in work today.

@2021ivfagain so sorry you’ve been upset. I took my swab in Nov too. I didn’t have any symptoms (or ever), it was ‘just’ the routine swabs detecting group b strep after my late miscarriage that prompted me to investigate. My Juno result showed almost 0% lacto, 46% StrepB (associated with aerobic vaginitis) and 26% prevotella tim (associated with bacterial vaginosis) amongst other bacteria. I stalled taking my antibiotics until Jan as I was waiting for my probiotics to arrive and to start in New Year. I’ve only recently finished them and am on Day 5 of the subsequent vag probiotics and also oral. I’m wondering how long to give it until I retest. Juno recommended not taking any vag probiotics for two weeks prior to testing so it gives an accurate representative result. I’m thinking I’ll finish the box of these daily vag probiotics (5 left) and possibly start another box every second day or so for a while before I consider retesting. I’m guessing it takes weeks/months for good bacteria to recolonise in my case but unsure. . Like you, I’m hoping I don’t have to take more antibiotics.

@thislittlebird it's hard to know but if varicoele repair could help sperm as it stops them frying more might be alive and more motile it may be worth doing sooner but any delay on this crappy journey is hard to bear
@Gardenlady543 I found my work almost unbearable and dome I'd the job but I realises its cos my self care just plummeted and I was not in a good place so everything was so hard to deal with. I have had some hypnotherapy increased anxiety meds, trying hard to implement self care like yoga, meditation being kind to myself and it has started to get better. On this journey we're so used to just doing doing all the time and we're worn out before we start x