High DNA fragmentation advice

[Dbop100]

Hello

We've been ttc for almost 2 years. We thought for the last year the problem was my low AMH of 2.1. We just had a failed round of IVF after which we did some more tests.

The most surprising result is that my husbands DNA Fragmentation has come back high at 37% - all his other standard sperm tests have come back normal / good. But we've never tested for DNA frag before. Our consultant advised he take Impryl and improve his lifestyle, she couldn't advise how much of a problem it is for trying naturally but advised ICSI if we ever do IVF again. We had decided not to as I never seem to get more than 1 egg so seems fairly pointless. I still feel it's worth more investigation so we're still going to see a Urologist incase it's caused by something else. If we can ever get an appointment...

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had normal sperm apart from DNA frag? Or knows how much of a problem this actually is and if they know any other ways to improve? Any advice in this area is very much appreciated xx

@Sperminator500 thanks yeah I'll definitely do an update when we get the results, I'm very interested to see how it works as in theory it sounds really great. Only issue is my own low AMH, I tend to only get 1 or 2 eggs from a round of IVF so not an ideal situation for ICSI. It's impossible to know if our issue is me or him, Mr Ramsay said he thought it was 60% me 40 % him so we might have to think about Donor Eggs as well. But one step at a time.

Never looked on Reddit but I'll check it out now thanks!

@Dbop100 - all the best and fingers crossed. Sorry to hear about the low AMH and low egg collection. How many rounds of IVF have you done? Can they try whacking up the doses of drugs to try and get more follicles and eggs? I think the first round of IVF is a bit of a learning curve for a clinic in understanding how you react to the drugs?

@Misty84 and @strawberrysummer19

Thank you so much for your sharing your stories. We just had a consult following our 2nd failed round and the doc made it sound it sound like it was going to be near impossible to get pregnant naturally with DNA Fragmentation (OH has 37% ACS) and Low AMH too! It gives me some hope hearing that you're both pregnant!

No problem @ohsheglows, it’s good to hear positive stories in our situation, and a week ago I never thought I’d be one of them!
How far did you get with your 2 rounds?

Thanks @Dbop100 yes I’ve booked an early scan in 2.5 weeks time so hopefully there will be some reassurance!
Like everyone else I’ll also be interested to hear about your Zymot results!

@ohsheglows I'm really sorry to hear about your round not working out. I had one in April and it was so hard 💕

@Misty84 I luckily managed to have 2 day 3 transfers of grade 1, 8 cells but neither of them took sadly.

@Dbop100 and thank you. It's so hard isn't it. We're going for 3rd time lucky in January but it's hard to feel positive about it! How are you feeling about things? Have you made a decision re. donor eggs?

@ohsheglows I am definitely open to Donor Eggs but now that this high DNA frag thing has come up (we only found out about it after our IVF) I feel like I need to try at least one more round with my own eggs. If we can get the DNA frag under control. I think the zymot chamber might be our last attempt before we think about donor sperm. But for some reason I find the idea of donor sperm harder than donor eggs. Maybe because I've been processing using DE for longer. It's so hard to know what the best thing to do is so just trying to focus on these test results in 3 weeks 🤞

We just had our latest comet results back using the zymot chamber and we're down to an average of 30% which we are thrilled with! 🥳🥳🥳 both had a little happy cry this morning.

Our last test result in Sept was an average of 50% so this feels like such a great improvement.

We're yet to talk it all through with Mr Ramsay, that'll be on Thursday, but this is a really promising start.

Fingers crossed we can squeeze a round of IVF with zymot and ICSI in in Jan 🤞🤞🤞

That's fantastic news! So thrilled for you ☺️

Did you do the ZYMOT at Dr Ramsay's clinic or is this something that you could do at your current IVF clinic?

@ohsheglows we did the test through Mr Ramsays lab, unfortunately I don't think we can do IVF with them but I am looking for a clinic that will do the zymot chamber as not many do.

Hopefully Mr Ramsay can recommend a good fertility clinic with a lab that's capable of doing zymot. Am happy to switch clinics I've not been to my last once since April.

Really want to get going on this asap but Xmas might slow things down.

@Dbop100 That’s so fantastic!! Wow what a difference. It’s so nice to get some good news for a change. I’m sure Mr Ramsey will be able to advise you on clinics. Really hope 2022 brings you some joy!

@Misty84 thank you! 😊 Hope all is going well with you?x

@Dbop100 I keep expecting something to trip us up at any moment but we’re ok so far thank you…still very early days and doesn’t feel real after the struggle to get here.

When are you hoping to have your next round? Around Feb maybe? Is that a realistic timeframe? x

Yes @Misty84 I imagine it must feel pretty surreal for it to be finally happening. Keeping everything crossed for you!

I'm going to try my best and do a round in January, simply because my work gets busier in February. I've previously done natural modified which starts when my cycle starts, no need to do anything beforehand. I've already booked in a consultation at my old clinic which apparently does Zymot for Xmas Eve so I'll hopefully know more then about when we can start.

Hi all

Thought I'd do a little update for the sake of anyone reading the thread in the future.

We saw a consultant at a clinic who do the zymot chip and they say based on his latest results they're happy to try IVF with the zymot chip then ICSI. The only issue now is what with my very low AMH and vastly varying cycle lengths (my last one was 18 days, the one before that was 45 days) I may be perimenopausal so in Jan they need to test me on my next cycle to see if a round with my eggs it's viable. If not we move to donor eggs...

But to say the sperm is finally looking like it's in a good place. We're just basically in hiding so my husband doesn't catch covid again!

SO last week we froze some sperm at the clinic, just as a little insurance policy. It was so easy and cheap (£120) I just thought I'd put it out there incase anyone else is also in a good place with sperm results. Covid basically set us back about a year last time I really can't deal with that happening again!

Hope everyone is doing well and had a great Xmas xx

Hi @Dbop100 that’s so great that things are progressing and the sperm is in a good place, such a good idea to freeze some too.

What do you mean they will test you on your next round? As in see how many follicles respond?

How do you feel about donor eggs?

Much love, and merry Christmas to all xx

Hi @Misty84 thank you! oh sorry I was a bit vague about testing for our next round. Wasn't sure anyone would care about my low egg reserve as it's more of a sperm thread.

So basically on CD1/2 of my next cycle they want to test my FSH level, if it's 18 or over then they won't let me do a cycle of IVF, apparently it would be pointless because the egg quality would be compromised. If it's too high then we'll test again at the start of the next cycle as it can fluctuate from cycle to cycle. Although if we keep getting high FSH every cycle we'll just move to Donor eggs after a few months as I am done waiting to move forward with things.

This wasn't really an issue last year because I had really regular 28 day cycles but since July (- couple of months before I turned 35) they've gone totally bananas and that's why the doctor is worries I might be perimenopausal. My AMH was 2.1 in Oct 2020 but it's not been tested since so god knows how bad it is now 🤦‍♀️

Thanks @Dbop100. I’m interested as also had low AMH along with the sperm issue. Very similar to you actually, I tested 2.3 in Nov 2020 and never tested since!!

I understand now; so you’ll test your FSH for potentially a few months and make a decision from that. If it’s ok in the first month can you do a round immediately?

When is your next cycle due?

@Misty84 yeah if my FSH is low enough then we'll do a round of natural modified which means stimming from CD5 onwards then egg collection around CD14 so it's fairly quick. I did two rounds with this protocol at the beginning of 2021, got 1 follicle the first round and converted to an IUI, got 2 eggs the 2nd round and 1 Day 5 blast which sadly didn't implant.

God knows when my next cycle will be! I'm CD2 right now so at some point in the next 18-45 days 🙈 it's totally unpredictable at the moment. I also developed some delightful adult acne when my cycles started going mad so I know there's defo something up with my hormones.

Yeah that's a coincidence! Can I ask if your cycles are normal? I think in theory low AMH alone isn't so bad, it's quality over quantity, but the danger is when your FSH creeps up.

Hope all is going well with your situation x

@Dbop100 My cycles range from 24-32 days. I developed cystic acne under my jaw which has been there for about a year now- delightful! Can’t get rid of it.
In the ivf/ICSI round that we did I got 4 eggs but no successful fertilisation. That’s when we discovered all the problems on my partners side.

Sadly, and I can’t believe I’m writing this, my pregnancy has ended today. Im 10 weeks and have been spotting for 4 days. I got a scan and the baby is just lying there, no heartbeat anymore (there was a heartbeat at 7 weeks and all was good). Apparently it died a week ago. 😣

Oh @Misty84 I am so sorry to hear that 😔 it's so unbelievably unfair. I had an early miscarriage about 1.5 years ago now, it was a natural conception and I only got to 5 weeks. But I know how much it hurts. I am so sorry you're going through this. Sending lots of love xx

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to know if anyone knows any clinics that do the zymot chamber? We met with Mr Ramsay in Dec and just waiting for our tests from using the zymot chamber ti come back.. if it has made a difference then we would want to use it for our next round! I don’t think my current clinic uses it- so just trying to think ahead about where to go next if we need to move! Thank you x

@Mummmmyyyy we are planning to do our next round with Care London as they use zymot. We've not actually done it yet so I can't fully recommend but it's been our main reason we've gone with them. I think maybe the Lister also use it? Not many of them do. Good luck with the test results I hope it helps!x

Hey, @Dbop100 thanks for getting back to me! We had our follow up with Mr Ramsay… turns out my husbands fragmentation has gone down from 37% in October to 24% in dec! We don’t need the zymot now.. Mr Ramsay said the previous one could have been due to covid.. who knows?! We have made lifestyle changes too… either way- v surprised! But thank you for letting me know re the clinics x

@Mummmmyyyy oh wow thats an amazing improvement! Good news indeed, wishing you all the luck with your next steps x