High DNA fragmentation advice

[Dbop100]

Hello

We've been ttc for almost 2 years. We thought for the last year the problem was my low AMH of 2.1. We just had a failed round of IVF after which we did some more tests.

The most surprising result is that my husbands DNA Fragmentation has come back high at 37% - all his other standard sperm tests have come back normal / good. But we've never tested for DNA frag before. Our consultant advised he take Impryl and improve his lifestyle, she couldn't advise how much of a problem it is for trying naturally but advised ICSI if we ever do IVF again. We had decided not to as I never seem to get more than 1 egg so seems fairly pointless. I still feel it's worth more investigation so we're still going to see a Urologist incase it's caused by something else. If we can ever get an appointment...

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had normal sperm apart from DNA frag? Or knows how much of a problem this actually is and if they know any other ways to improve? Any advice in this area is very much appreciated xx

Hi @Dbop100 I was wondering how you are getting on and if you had your round with Care yet using Zymot as that was your next plan?
After the miscarriage we got a puppy! Which has been such a source of joy. We just did a second round with the Lister, only got 2 eggs, they made it to day 3 but didn’t progress from there. Apparently a sperm issue AGAIN. I don’t think my partner’s fragmentation has improved at all despite removing a varicocele. It’s so hard when we don’t know how to fix it! I have been researching Chinese medicine but I saw from an earlier post that Dr Ramsay told you not to do this?

I’m 38 out now so can’t help but feel that time is running out and we’re no closer to having a baby than we were 3 years ago. We’ve spent £18,000 with nothing to show for it!

Hi @Misty84

Hope you're well! Great news about the puppy, we got 2 kittens just before our first round of IVF and they have been so brilliant getting us through some dark days. So sorry to hear about your most recent round though.

So we did another round of IVF with my eggs and using Zymot at the beginning of the year. We got 1 egg which made it to day 5, it looked good quality, but sadly didn't implant. So we've closed the door on my eggs now and the next phase is moving towards donor eggs.

In regards to the sperm, Dr Ramsay always suspected the issue was due to covid, my husband had been having daily headaches for 1.5 years which started to go away in March. We retested his sperm and without the Zymot chip it's now come down to 29% which is brilliant. We immediately froze some of it, thank god because he's got Covid again now and I dread to think how it's messed up the sperm again.

The new result meant we were told by Mr Ramsay not to use the zymot on our next round with donor eggs because the sperm should be fine on it's own now.

We've put everything on pause for a few months as I have just started a new job and need a bit of time to get settled, can't face worrying I might have another miscarriage at the same time as trying to learn the ropes, but we're thinking of doing a transfer with DE just after Xmas.

Do you have any ideas about what you'll do as your next steps? X

Also yea Mr Ramsay said definitely don't do Chinese herbs but acupuncture doesn't hurt.

I know how you feel it's been 3 years for us too, so much money, so many friends are on their 2nd babies. It's so hard xx

Hi Misty, we discovered my DH had a varicocele that was operated on and im we had failed ICSI cycles soon after it. However 18m after the op, I started to get pregnant naturally - I had a few early miscarriages but then a successful pregnancy that gave us our dd.
So sometimes can take a while for the apparatus (so to speak) to start producing healthy sperm again.
We are now trying again in hope of a sibling for dd but now I'm older there's my eggs to worry about as well as the sperm!

Ah thanks for the update @Dbop100

I’m sorry to hear that your last round didn’t implant. The hope when you make it that far must be so difficult!

How do you feel about moving on to donor eggs? Did it take some time to accept that route, or was it a relatively easy next-step decision? I guess we’re processing things all the time aren’t we.

Our next plan is to contact Ramsay and do everything we can to improve the sperm, and keep trying naturally. We’re currently out of funds for ivf plus there’s not a good enough chance with my limited supply of geriatric eggs anyway! I suppose donor eggs could be an option for us in the future if we can improve things. I’m not there mentally yet, but if it’s a choice between that and not being a mother then of course I will do it. It’s the next closest thing to having it be 100% biologically ours.

I can’t help feeling slightly robbed. We’ve wasted 3 years of my eggs on bad sperm. It’s hard to take.

I looked into adoption recently. Did quite a lot of research and attended a webinar. Whole different kettle of fish to being pregnant and having a child from day 1 though. So incredibly complex and challenging. Not sure we could handle it. Think we’ll exhaust all other routes before revisiting that idea.

Just seen your message @Dia12 . That’s really encouraging, thank you. We had the varicocele removed 6 months ago.
A year ago we got pregnant naturally (miscarried), so I know it is possible and we cling on to that.
I’m really glad you got your miracle, best of luck for a second, how old are you now if you don’t mind me asking? Age is definitely a factor for us now too.

Appreciate this is a super old thread but wondering how everyone has been getting on and whether there have been any success stories? This has been the most helpful thread I’ve found on the topic so far on mumsnet so would love to hear how everyone has got on in the last two years.

Husband has just had comet test back and been given a score of ACS 35% (this is an increase from our last test back in mid March which was DFI 20 via SCSA). I’m pretty devastated by this but my husband doesn’t seem concerned as we had a pregnancy back in January that ended in miscarriage. We’re seeing Prof Minhas but he’s been pretty useless and vague with his advice so far and yesterday when he gave my husband these results said they were only slightly elevated and not significantly different from our first results. My husband is not concerned at all as the dr is so relaxed but everything I’ve read online about DNA frag is pretty damning and Im 36 so time is not on our side from an egg quality perspective.

Hi @Bubbles19818 we achieved a natural, successful pregnancy eventually. My baby is now a month old. It took us 5 years to get here! I still can’t believe it. So don’t give up hope. Also I’m nearly 40 with VERY low amh. And my partner had high dna fragmentation which we treated via Dr Ramsay and supplements eg. Proxeed. It can still happen for you!!

@Misty84 oh I’m so so happy to hear that, what lovely news. Enjoy the newborn bubble, it is a wild ride but so so wonderful.

Do you mind me asking what Dr Ramsay suggested in terms of lifestyle changes and supplements and did you ever seen a reduction in his fragmentation? My husband is on impryl and we have been on a Mediterranean diet the last few weeks. He also has a Grade 2 variocele so not sure if we should fix this. Prof Minhas said it has a 50% chance of improving numbers which feels like bad odds and the surgery is £8k which is almost a round of IVF with ICSI.

@Bubbles19818 Thanks so much!

Ok so firstly, my partner had his varicocele removed on the NHS because he said it was achey. Is this something you can do?
Yes his numbers improved some months after doing this. In addition he was on Proxeed and Ubiquinol. He also reduced his alcohol intake.

Ah that’s good to know - we’ll see what the GP says. Dreading to know the waiting list, but maybe we’ll be able to get it treated before the end of the year is out 🤞🏻

Thank you for your advice and congrats once again on your little one x

Hi @Bubbles19818 I didn't find Mr Minhas that great, we were much happier when we switched to Mr Ramsay. He's worth waiting a couple more weeks to see.

@Misty84 congratulations on your baby!💕

In the end for us, my husbands numbers just suddenly improved. We were never entirely sure why but it coincided with when his long covid (mainly headaches and brain fog) also improved. We took advantage and froze a sample of that sperm. A few months later we went ahead with a round of IVF using Donor eggs and we were successful first time. Our daughter is now 7 months old and we are both completely in love with her, I honestly couldn't love her any more even if she had come from one of my eggs. So a happy ending for us but 4 long years to get there.

@Bubbles19818 From my recollection we had a couple of months wait, I think it’ll depend on your borough. For us it was worth it as we couldn’t afford to do it privately when like you say, it’s the cost of a round of IVF+ICSI!
Wishing you the best of luck with everything 🙏

Congratulations @Dbop100! So weird reading back on some of these messages from a few years ago, and all we were going through. I always thought success happened to other people, but here we are! It’s miraculous. 5 years later I have my little boy ❤️

@Dbop100 - congratulations! That is so lovely to hear and I’m glad you also got there in the end, even though it was a long journey.

@Misty84 @Dbop100 I’m so glad I posted on this thread, not only because it gives me/anyone in a similar position desperately scouring mumsnet for more info some hope, but also because it’s just so lovely when you hear the happy endings. Good luck with everything and fingers crossed in a few years time I can come back and update this thread with a success story too xx